Everybody's wrong.
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18-10-2016, 07:38 PM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(14-10-2016 11:46 AM)socialistview Wrote:  Hey im christian but i believe both athiest and christians are wrong about the bible. I believe the bible is a book similar to budism but its fundamentals start with having rules. I believe in the end all god wants you do be is a virtuous compassionate giving person.

Who do you believe wrote the Bible? Rather, how much of a role do you believe God played in its contents?

There are parts where God commands people to kill the men, women, and boys of other tribes and keep the female virgins for themselves. That doesn't really say "be a virtuous compassionate giving person" to me.
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19-10-2016, 06:32 AM (This post was last modified: 19-10-2016 07:06 AM by socialistview.)
RE: Everybodies wrong.
it didnt have to go by bloodshed, god would have brought isreal back together but the bible says when they killed jesus the jews rebelled from god giving the gentils grace which it says in the old testament that the world rebelled and wanted to follow the angels the reason why only jews recieved grace through abraham becuase he was the only one who wanted to follow god. but sacrifice is how he does it. he tried to find somebody to do it but nobody wanted to so he sent himself to establish a new covenant. cant you understand that the fulfillment of the law was what jesus was trying to portray instead of stoning theres forgiveness god the father accepting this himself. now trying to give evidence for a god thats not presently here is a dead end road if you want to have supernatural experiences you have to be a believer god only goes to believers, miracles follow the believer, and its a leap of faith to believe that jesus rose again and god does this because as he says youll not be faithfull to him and follow anything that shows up doing miracles.
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19-10-2016, 06:57 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(19-10-2016 06:32 AM)socialistview Wrote:  if you want to have supernatural experiences you have to be a believer god only goes to believers miracles follow the believer.

You do realize that's the exact process to fool yourself. This is saying that you have to believe first, then evidence follows, this is exactly opposite of how it works.

If you believe, you don't need any kind of evidence, you are already a believer.

Also, if you are a believer, you'll lower your standard for belief, subjective feelings and anecdotes (testimonies) are sufficient evidence for your belief. That's where miracles are generated, by lowering your standard for evidence.

From an outsider point of view, this is just a zealot seeing what they want to see, it's clearly a path to delusion and not rationally compelling.

Here's an excerpt from the Heaven's Gate cult from their website:

Whether Hale-Bopp has a "companion" or not is irrelevant from our perspective. However, its arrival is joyously very significant to us at "Heaven's Gate." The joy is that our Older Member in the Evolutionary Level Above Human (the "Kingdom of Heaven") has made it clear to us that Hale-Bopp's approach is the "marker" we've been waiting for -- the time for the arrival of the spacecraft from the Level Above Human to take us home to "Their World" -- in the literal Heavens. Our 22 years of classroom here on planet Earth is finally coming to conclusion -- "graduation" from the Human Evolutionary Level. We are happily prepared to leave "this world" and go with Ti's crew.

Whether Hale-Bopp has a "companion" or not is irrelevant. They saw what they wanted to see irregardless of evidence to the contrary.

All they had to do is drink their heavenly cocktail to reach the next plane of existence.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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19-10-2016, 06:57 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(19-10-2016 06:32 AM)socialistview Wrote:  it didnt have to go by bloodshed

Except for the times when god specifically ordered bloodshed. Or even shed the blood himself.

(19-10-2016 06:32 AM)socialistview Wrote:  god would have brought isreal back together but the bible says when they killed jesus they fully rebelled from god giving the gentils grace to be brought into the religion in a new covenant.

You continue to ignore my questions. Are you familiar with biblical scholar Bart Erhman? Or any biblical scholar?

(19-10-2016 06:32 AM)socialistview Wrote:  cant you understand that the fulfillment of the law was what jesus was trying to portrayinstead of stoning theres forgiveness.

The story of Jesus and the Woman Taken in Adultery is aprocryphal. This has been known and acknowledged by secular and religious authorities for hundreds of years. (Sometime in the 1700's, IIRC.)

And any mention of jesus's love and forgiveness should be tempered by the doctrine of hell. There was no eternal damnation before jesus.

Never forget: Jesus loves you so much that he'll torture you forever in a lake of eternal fire if you don't love him back.

(19-10-2016 06:32 AM)socialistview Wrote:  now trying to give evidence for a god thats not presently here is a dead end road

I thought god was everywhere.

(19-10-2016 06:32 AM)socialistview Wrote:  if you want to have supernatural experiences you have to be a believer

Believer? More like gullible. Or delusional.

(19-10-2016 06:32 AM)socialistview Wrote:  god only goes to believers miracles follow the believer, and its a leap of faith to believe that jesus rose again and god does this because as he says youll not be faithfull to him and follow anything that shows up doing miracles.

How do you distinguish between faith and gullibility?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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19-10-2016, 07:00 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(19-10-2016 06:57 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  All they had to do is drink their heavenly cocktail to reach the next plane of existence.

Their website is still active:

Tinfoil Hat Zone

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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19-10-2016, 07:05 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(19-10-2016 06:32 AM)socialistview Wrote:  it didnt have to go by bloodshed god would have brought isreal back together but the bible says when they killed jesus they fully rebelled from god giving the gentils grace to be brought into the religion in a new covenant. cant you understand that the fulfillment of the law was what jesus was trying to portrayinstead of stoning theres forgiveness. now trying to give evidence for a god thats not presently here is a dead end road if you want to have supernatural experiences you have to be a believer god only goes to believers miracles follow the believer, and its a leap of faith to believe that jesus rose again and god does this because as he says youll not be faithfull to him and follow anything that shows up doing miracles.

Stop talking. You are embarrassing yourself.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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19-10-2016, 07:07 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(18-10-2016 07:38 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(14-10-2016 11:46 AM)socialistview Wrote:  Hey im christian but i believe both athiest and christians are wrong about the bible. I believe the bible is a book similar to budism but its fundamentals start with having rules. I believe in the end all god wants you do be is a virtuous compassionate giving person.

Who do you believe wrote the Bible? Rather, how much of a role do you believe God played in its contents?

There are parts where God commands people to kill the men, women, and boys of other tribes and keep the female virgins for themselves. That doesn't really say "be a virtuous compassionate giving person" to me.

where does it say that.
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19-10-2016, 07:10 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(19-10-2016 07:07 AM)socialistview Wrote:  where does it say that.

Er, before coming to a website such as this, you should learn the subject matter. You obviously are extremely ignorant. It is not our job to teach you. Bibles are available everywhere. Perhaps read it, then get back to us. Until then, shut the fuck up you blithering fool.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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19-10-2016, 07:17 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(19-10-2016 06:32 AM)socialistview Wrote:  it didnt have to go by bloodshed god would have brought isreal back together but the bible says when they killed jesus they fully rebelled from god giving the gentils grace to be brought into the religion in a new covenant.

That is utter nonsense. Depending on how you interpret the story Jesus was killed either by the Jews or the Romans and neither implies that the gentiles would now be deserving of "grace". If your god wanted to open up to other nations the idea that the best option was to arrange to have himself killed is just insane.

Quote:cant you understand that the fulfillment of the law was what jesus was trying to portrayinstead of stoning theres forgiveness.

and the only way that could happen was for a brutal human sacrifice to be made? Your god is a madman. The whole 'fulfillment of the law' line is complete bullshit anyway. The "law" was explicitly laid down "for all time" so there's no "fulfulling" it. That's later apologetics to try to explain why the Jesus character failed to meet any expectation of the messiah. It sounds good on the surface but when you really look at it there is no substance to the argument.

Quote: now trying to give evidence for a god thats not presently here is a dead end road if you want to have supernatural experiences you have to be a believer

That's not how rational belief works. That way lies madness.

Quote:god only goes to believers miracles follow the believer, and its a leap of faith to believe that jesus rose again and god does this because as he says youll not be faithfull to him and follow anything that shows up doing miracles.

Bullshit. This is supposed to be a god that knows all. Why would he possibly think that people who follow blindly would be better than people who follow based on a rational decision that it is the best thing to do? The only leaders who keep everything secret and demand blind obedience are maniacal dictators that are unable to earn loyalty any other way.

Faith is not a virtue. Faith is the discarding of rational thought. It is the denial of everything that makes you human. The one thing that we can do better than any other creature we know is to think and to reason. Why would you surrender that to anybody? Anybody who asks you not to think or to accept their word without question is playing a con game and you need to run from them. People who have real knowledge are not afraid of questioning. Read. Think. Ask.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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19-10-2016, 07:18 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(19-10-2016 07:07 AM)socialistview Wrote:  
(18-10-2016 07:38 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  There are parts where God commands people to kill the men, women, and boys of other tribes and keep the female virgins for themselves.

where does it say that.

Quote:Numbers
31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

SAB: Numbers 31

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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