Everybody's wrong.
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02-11-2016, 05:10 AM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2016 06:08 AM by Velvet.)
RE: Everybodies wrong.
Its seems that you apply the ''why would you not believe this if you are not sure? It might be real!'' when the rational would be ''why would you believe this? It might not be real.''

Why this way is better? Because in your method you will end up being deceived 999 times before you encounter (perhaps) some real claims.

While we will NOT be deceived 999 times but we will ''lose'' perhaps some real claims.

But here's the turning point, the real claims eventually provide evidence, and we adopt them anyways, so we won't be losing anything, we will just not be deceived by the 999 false claims, while you will.

If we go for your way of thinking a guy named Jim Jones, that was very good at sounding real could convince us to massive suicide just because he might be right.

You will also fall prey to every kind of con man, and ultimately have no way to distinguish your religion from any other, all religions might be true, and might sound really believable with the right con man and rhetorician to make their deception sound and look like true.

So, is not that we believe they can't happen, we just think we need some method of verifying this stuff before taking it as truth as you do, and in the claims you pointed (ghosts, tarot, astrology) we can, with so many tests (some of them we may even conduct ourselves without help of any laboratory) showed in 100% of the time to be false.

Why don't all, or even one single astrology and tarot expert completely dominates the stock market and lottery business?

Just think for a second, how can you know, that this ghost that pulls your leg every night is not actually Hanuman the monkey God, which would be the real god and that's his playful way of trying to show you his light and wisdom?
More importantly, how do you know is not some kind of spasm or that you are not dreaming very vividly?

I advise you to watch ''The Mentalist'' series, he is a ex-con-man who shows (as the story progresses) how they are able to exploit your naivety for their own purposes, after you watch that I can advise you some serious study on skepticism, but for now that material would go great lengths showing you that things are not as magical as they look, deception is thing, and people like you are its prey.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
-P.C. Hodgell - Seeker’s Mask - Kirien
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02-11-2016, 06:22 AM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2016 06:28 AM by RenaissanceMan.)
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(14-10-2016 12:13 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  First prove that your god exist. Then you can start talking about what he want. (sic)

Nothing will serve as a proof to those of you with closed minds and hearts.
"The fool hath said in his heart there is no god."

Prove that there is no God, and don't even think about playing the "You can't prove a negative" game. I can prove that I am not Abraham Lincoln.

The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, by Josh McDowell is one of the more compelling treatises that should be read by atheists, who seem to be so expert in the Holy Bible, despite not believing anything in it.

Some of you have chastened me for being so bold as to get in your faces from the outset. "Be kind and respectful, and we will respond in kind," you said.

Uh huh. Like unfogged said to SocialistView - THIS kind of kindness and tolerance and respect:

"I see that you are that special kind of gullible.

No critical thinking skills.
No reading comprehension skills.
No composition skills.
No grammatical skills.
Very sad."
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02-11-2016, 06:57 AM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2016 07:12 AM by Velvet.)
RE: Everybodies wrong.
We don't know that god doesn't exist ReinaissenceMan, you are the one saying he does, we are just saying: ''well if he does then it certainly doesn't look like it with so many children with cancer and ebola all around, and those tsunamis killing people regardless of anything they do or believe, but anyways, do you have evidence?''

That's the epic fail of your post, we are not saying it doesn't exist, we are just saying there are no sufficient reasons and evidence to accept your claim.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
-P.C. Hodgell - Seeker’s Mask - Kirien
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02-11-2016, 06:57 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(02-11-2016 06:22 AM)RenaissanceMan Wrote:  Prove that there is no God, and don't even think about playing the "You can't prove a negative" game. I can prove that I am not Abraham Lincoln.

Those are not the same kind of claim. Having "not" in the phrasing doesn't make it a negative claim. What you would be proving is that there is a distinction between you and Lincoln.

That's largely irrelevant though since the burden of proof is on the person making the claim. The time to believe a claim is when there is evidence for it and I've seen no good reason yet to believe that any god exists or even that any workable definition of what a god is has been agreed on.

By the way, please don't go to the "atheists claim that no god exists" strawman. Some do but not all. All that atheists in general claim is that they are not convinced that there is a god.

Quote:The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, by Josh McDowell is one of the more compelling treatises that should be read by atheists, who seem to be so expert in the Holy Bible, despite not believing anything in it.

Josh McDowell? Laughat
His arguments have been debunked repeatedly. They are arguments from ignorance and incredulity and are worthless.

Why would it surprise you that atheists read the bible? Many, if not most, are ex-christians who used to believe until they started applying the same decision-making standards they use for everything else in their life. Some of us never believed but operate by the principle that you need to understand the arguments for a claim before dismissing it.

Reading the bible and really thinking about what it is claiming and what it is advocating is one of the best ways to create atheists. That's especially true if you read the scholarship on how and when it was written, edited, and compiled.

Quote:Some of you have chastened me for being so bold as to get in your faces from the outset. "Be kind and respectful, and we will respond in kind," you said.

Uh huh. Like unfogged said to SocialistView - THIS kind of kindness and tolerance and respect:

That response was not "from the outset" but after days of back and forth. This forum is a place for atheists to interact and we welcome theists who come to ask why we don't believe and why we dismiss arguments that they find compelling. They get treated with the same respect that they give. The ones who come in to tell us that we are close-minded bigots while demonstrating that they have no interest in listening to counter-arguments and simply continue to spew their beliefs get treated with the contempt that they show.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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02-11-2016, 07:02 AM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2016 07:06 AM by Velvet.)
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(02-11-2016 06:22 AM)RenaissanceMan Wrote:  I can prove that I am not Abraham Lincoln.

I'm very interested in knowing how you intend to prove that you are not Abraham Lincoln sleeping and dreaming of being a different person in a whole different world, that ironically thinks that he can prove he is not who he actually is while he is just dreaming that all along.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
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02-11-2016, 10:31 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
I go by whatever the bible says if somebody says other than what the bible says then you do not follow them. How can you give evidence for something that gives no evidence remember its a non physical being, i guess theres burn marks on mount Sinai, we have the wall from the second temple and god said the jews history will be forgotten and tarnished becuase they were so bad.
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02-11-2016, 10:35 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
https://www.google.com/search?q=biblical...n&safe=off
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02-11-2016, 11:09 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(02-11-2016 10:31 AM)socialistview Wrote:  I go by whatever the bible says if somebody says other than what the bible says then you do not follow them.

No, you don't.

I would imagine you're a better person then that.

You're using your own moral compass to decide what is right and wrong when you read that story.

(02-11-2016 10:31 AM)socialistview Wrote:  How can you give evidence for something that gives no evidence?

Therein lies the problem.

(02-11-2016 10:31 AM)socialistview Wrote:  remember its a non physical being,

So is my pink dragon.

(02-11-2016 10:31 AM)socialistview Wrote:  i guess theres burn marks on mount Sinai,

Nope.

(02-11-2016 10:31 AM)socialistview Wrote:  we have the wall from the second temple

Not to long ago there was a major archaeological find. The city of Troy. The same one that was included in Homer's Iliad, Homer Odyssey and The Trojan Horse. Long thought to ether be lost to time or the thing of legend.

So now that they've found this city. Dose that mean Apollo, Zeus and Poseidon are real? Dose that mean thousand of ships were used to reclaim Helen?

No. All it proves is the City existed.

The same can be said about modern myth's like Spider-man. If Spider-man lives in New York City and New York City exists then Spider-man must exists.

(02-11-2016 10:31 AM)socialistview Wrote:  and god said the jews history will be forgotten and tarnished becuase they were so bad.

I was walking down the road one day when on the side of the road I saw all the trees had arrows stuck in them. Every one had a target on them and perfect bulls-eye. Hundreds of them, one right after the other. Eventually I ran into a may with a bow and arrow and I asked them are you one one that did all those bull-eyes? He replied yes. I asked him how did you hit them perfectly every time. "Oh!" he responded "It's very simple. I shoot the arrow in the tree then paint the target around it."

I doesn't take a god, to think up lousy excuses.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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02-11-2016, 11:17 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(02-11-2016 10:31 AM)socialistview Wrote:  I go by whatever the bible says...

Then you should have no problem at all procuring for Me one (1) real, live Talking Snake™ (Genesis 3). Kindly ask your omnipotent invisible friend for the shipping address, and send it prepaid express delivery to My domicile forthwith.
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02-11-2016, 11:18 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(02-11-2016 10:31 AM)socialistview Wrote:  I go by whatever the bible says if somebody says other than what the bible says then you do not follow them.

Ok, so why the Bible and not the Quran, or Bhagavad Gita?

Why is a good idea to trust the Bible instead of other Holy Books? What mechanism could we use to try to sort this out?

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
-P.C. Hodgell - Seeker’s Mask - Kirien
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