Everybody's wrong.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
14-11-2016, 04:05 AM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2016 04:25 AM by Velvet.)
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(14-11-2016 02:27 AM)socialistview Wrote:  Were 98% with the praying mantus. And I understand common ancestor I'm saying that there was none we all come from the dirt so it may seem that we all had a common ancestor. And jews had their own magic the kabbalah is a magic book.
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and...agic-books
Its like darwin he speculated and now we found proof . And you don't understand theory, one new finding could disrupt all what you see as a quatum mechanics is big on that we don't know if well have gravity tommarrow.

[Image: epic-facepalm-epic-facepalm-fail-spaceti...247316.jpg]

Socialist is able to make all kinds of errors in a single sentence, all kinds.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
-P.C. Hodgell - Seeker’s Mask - Kirien
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Velvet's post
14-11-2016, 05:45 AM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2016 05:50 AM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Everybodies wrong.
98% praying mantis, you say... hrm. Okay. Let's take a look at where you got such an idea.

It has already been pointed out to you that we share about 60% genetic similarity with insects. This is because the lines that led to all multicellular creatures, both animals and plants, did not start until about 1 1/2 billion years ago. Life had been around, in single-celled form, for about 3 billion years before that, evolving the chemical pathways we call metabolism, evolving all the little structures (such as the cell nucleus, the mitochondria, etc., in eukaryotes, a group to which we and all other non-single-celled life belong) that make up every one of our cells. That means multicellular creatures only represent about the final one third of the time life has been on earth.

So we share similar genetics to all the other eukaryotes. Neat!

But again, your continued insistence upon the "similarity" between DNA in creatures totally misses the point. So, one last time in the hopes that you have the capacity to be an honest person, I will repeat:

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT GENETIC SIMILARITIES

I am talking about a particular type of genes that are damaged or otherwise inactive, and thus not acted on by Natural Selection (because they don't do anything, don't form any part of the creature that NS can act upon), but which are still copied and passed on to each new generation intact, with only the occasional "point mutation" (the changing of a single letter by random chance) creating occasional variances in the sequence.

Think of it like this: your great-grandfather had the phrase "Four score and seven years ago" in his DNA, in one of those inactive places. (I'm not saying there are really sentences in the DNA; I'm using it as an example of our ability to spot distinct gene sequences.)

That sentence would have gotten passed down to all of his children, including your grandfather, then down to your father, and finally to you. Now I come along and meet a guy who claims to be your distant cousin, sharing the same great-grandfather that you share. How would I tell if he really is?

Would I look at how similar your functional DNA is? No. I would look for that sentence, "Four score and seven years ago" in your DNA and in your cousin's DNA. If it's there, then it shows you both share a common ancestor.

This is what I am talking about. All that stuff you're quoting from the Institute for Creation Research is simply static, designed to keep you from talking about the same thing I am, to keep you from thinking too hard about it, because you are told by a group you inherently trust (after all, they're fellow Christians! They wouldn't lie to me!) that this answer is sufficient.

But it's not. It totally dodges the issue.

We know how these DNA sequences form, and how they are handed down. This is sophomore-level genetics course material. We know that when we find these matching sequences, we can use it to pinpoint family lineages.

As I have pointed out, this technique is used in court to tell if a child alleged to be the child of a deadbeat father is actually from his DNA line... if it is, the child will have his family's particular set of markers. The technique is used to tell if the blood or semen left at a crime scene belongs to the accused, because if it is then he is the rapist and if it is not his then he needs to be set free.

If what we're saying about humans and chimpanzees is not true, do you realize how many prisoners we would have to set free, tomorrow?

So please, try to be honest. Try to be rational, even if you don't like the conclusions. These are very basic facts about how DNA works.

As others have pointed out, there are many other ways to tell that the DNA of humans comes from the same family lineage as the other great apes, including the fusion of our Chromosome #2 with the smallest chromosome in the rest of the ape lineage, leaving the "chromosome ends" (telomeres) still visible at the point of fusion. There's no other reason for it to be like that unless such a fusion event occurred.

So please, again, try to be honest. Stop squeezing your eyes shut and grasping at ridiculous straws. Evolution is reality.

Humans are:

Eukaryotes - we have cells with nuclei and organelles. So we share the DNA sequences with all other eukaryotic creatures: that's what make us eukaryotes.

Vertebrates - we have bones and a spine that contains our spinal cord. (As above, we share the DNA "instructions" to make us vertebrates.)

Mammals - we have nipples and hair, give live vaginal birth to our young, and produce milk.

Placentals - we develop in a uterus with a placenta (not all mammals do)

Primates - we have prehensile hands with fingerprints and fingernails, highly mobile shoulder and hip joints, and reduced olfactory brain centers in favor of better eyesight... we are of the Haplorhini, or "dry nosed", sub-variety of primate.

Great Apes - we are tailless (externally), dependent for survival on social organization and learned behavior patterns, have an atrophied appendix, and five-cusped molar teeth (most monkeys have four-cusped ones). Our shoulders are fully rotating, and we have a body hair pattern that includes a highly visible, highly expressive face used to communicate emotions.

Hominds - we are bipedal and have larger brains than the other great apes.

and Humans - we have developed a gene set that allows for vocal communication at a high level of complexity.

That is your connection to the world. Be proud of it! And be proud of the fact that we have evolved intelligence to the point that (if we don't close our minds because we'd prefer to be magically made out of clay by a sky wizard) we can look at our own DNA and read our own history, there. We can look at the characteristics of other related animals and build a "tree of life" that shows how all those lineages diverged over the years into all the types of creature on earth today. I'll bet you're not even honest enough to read what I'm writing, and won't notice this sentence stuck in the middle of this paragraph. We can then develop DNA testing, decades after we built that tree of life from other evidence, and the DNA testing totally confirm what we did before, when it didn't have to, had we been wrong.

That's pretty amazing. And it's amazing to me that you refuse to see it. That you refuse to listen when others try to tell you about it. Instead of going, "wow, that's amazing!", you instead tell a whole new lie, like "we're 98% related to praying mantises".

Please remember, at all times: Lying for Jesus™ is still lying.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
14-11-2016, 05:58 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
On a side note, while trying to see where he even found the lie about praying mantises, I found this BAD ASS photo of an unknown (to me) species of praying mantis:

[Image: spreadarms_lo.jpg]

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
14-11-2016, 06:14 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(14-11-2016 02:48 AM)socialistview Wrote:  Just as much energy in the beginning reaction is just as much energy in the end result, so think of life being the end result loss of the substrate also.

Megatron:

[Image: 320px-Atlantis_Arise_Megs_Lincoln_memorial.JPG]

Mickey Mouse:

[Image: daa6201bd81c9f5c0efafb5dc29ee233.jpg]

Metatron:

[Image: latest?cb=20150912131323]

Do you know what these characters have in common? They are all imaginary, and you can't figure out the difference between real and imaginary things.

You need psychiatric help, if you can't distinguish between cartoon characters and reality, I seriously doubt you will be able to understand the nuances of evolutionary theory or how evidence has led scientists to confirm this basic principal of life.

Get help Megatron, you're engaged in destructive behavior, maybe you'll get a clue and realize that your ability to determine reality from fantasy is severely impaired to the point that you could present a danger to yourself and others.

You don't have easy access to guns do you?

I know that Megatron uses guns to hurt people around him, so I suspect you will too, especially if you hear voices from the Allspark/Holy Spirit/God/Angels.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheInquisition's post
14-11-2016, 06:23 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(13-11-2016 07:22 PM)socialistview Wrote:  So not doing witchraft but denying it is the way to go.

Are you just genetically incapable of understanding anything that involves rational thought and critical thinking?

Quote:Trust me I've been around a lot of things like that and the people I'm around are convinced that these thingsand paranormal is real.

That I do believe. The question is why you, and they , are convinced when even a cursory examination of the "evidence" shows it to be a huge pile of confirmation bias topped off with just about every other possible logical fallacy.

Quote: You ddon't hear stories of things and go see for yourself or something.

Yes, that's exactly what we do. We look for supporting evidence. We look for ways to verify that the claim is true. We think about the implications of claims and then look for things that show those implications exist. When we don't find supporting evidence we dismiss the claims as unlikely and unbelievable.

Quote:And blaspheme ofvthe spirit is telling somebody there from the devil.

Go argue that with Christians. By the way, I had a dream last night and Ganesh and Hanuman came to me and told me you were an irrational wanker so I guess that settles that. Since it was a dream it must be evidence that Ganesh and Hanuman are real, right?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes unfogged's post
14-11-2016, 06:26 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(14-11-2016 06:14 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Metatron:

[Image: latest?cb=20150912131323]

That's not the Metatron... this is the Metatron:
[Image: ImagesCAMT7NZ2.jpg]

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like unfogged's post
14-11-2016, 06:30 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(14-11-2016 06:26 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(14-11-2016 06:14 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Metatron:

[Image: latest?cb=20150912131323]

That's not the Metatron... this is the Metatron:
[Image: ImagesCAMT7NZ2.jpg]

Alan Rickman is a fuckin' boss.




[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like EvolutionKills's post
14-11-2016, 06:49 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(14-11-2016 05:58 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  On a side note, while trying to see where he even found the lie about praying mantises, I found this BAD ASS photo of an unknown (to me) species of praying mantis:

[Image: spreadarms_lo.jpg]

I think Megatron simply made up a lie de novo, everybodies got to have a hobby, right? Big Grin

I thought you would like this link RS:

Does the Bible Really Claim that Insects Only have Four Legs?

I'll quote this part where John Morris gets it wrong:

Quote:Today, locusts are considered migratory grasshoppers. They all have two large hind legs, quite different in appearance, size, and function from the front four legs. Their front legs are used for "crawling, clinging, and climbing," while their back legs rest "above" their front legs and feet, and are used for "jumping." Furthermore, the Hebrew word translated "beetle" actually comes from the verb "to leap," implying a similar leaping insect, not our modern beetle. Thus, the Biblical description of grasshoppers turns out to be exactly anatomically correct. Far from being an embarrassment to Bible believers, this passage bears sterling testimony to the accuracy and inspiration of Scripture. As always, arguments which claim that the Bible is wrong are themselves wrong, and the Bible still stands!

He admits the front two legs on the grasshopper are, in fact, legs, and then doesn't think those legs count because those legs aren't used for jumping. Facepalm

[Image: grasshopper1-1.jpg]

Creationists, denying the obvious since 700 B.C.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like TheInquisition's post
14-11-2016, 06:53 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(14-11-2016 05:45 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  98% praying mantis, you say... hrm. Okay. Let's take a look at where you got such an idea.

It has already been pointed out to you that we share about 60% genetic similarity with insects. This is because the lines that led to all multicellular creatures, both animals and plants, did not start until about 1 1/2 billion years ago. Life had been around, in single-celled form, for about 3 billion years before that, evolving the chemical pathways we call metabolism, evolving all the little structures (such as the cell nucleus, the mitochondria, etc., in eukaryotes, a group to which we and all other non-single-celled life belong) that make up every one of our cells. That means multicellular creatures only represent about the final one third of the time life has been on earth.

So we share similar genetics to all the other eukaryotes. Neat!

But again, your continued insistence upon the "similarity" between DNA in creatures totally misses the point. So, one last time in the hopes that you have the capacity to be an honest person, I will repeat:

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT GENETIC SIMILARITIES

I am talking about a particular type of genes that are damaged or otherwise inactive, and thus not acted on by Natural Selection (because they don't do anything, don't form any part of the creature that NS can act upon), but which are still copied and passed on to each new generation intact, with only the occasional "point mutation" (the changing of a single letter by random chance) creating occasional variances in the sequence.

Think of it like this: your great-grandfather had the phrase "Four score and seven years ago" in his DNA, in one of those inactive places. (I'm not saying there are really sentences in the DNA; I'm using it as an example of our ability to spot distinct gene sequences.)

That sentence would have gotten passed down to all of his children, including your grandfather, then down to your father, and finally to you. Now I come along and meet a guy who claims to be your distant cousin, sharing the same great-grandfather that you share. How would I tell if he really is?

Would I look at how similar your functional DNA is? No. I would look for that sentence, "Four score and seven years ago" in your DNA and in your cousin's DNA. If it's there, then it shows you both share a common ancestor.

This is what I am talking about. All that stuff you're quoting from the Institute for Creation Research is simply static, designed to keep you from talking about the same thing I am, to keep you from thinking too hard about it, because you are told by a group you inherently trust (after all, they're fellow Christians! They wouldn't lie to me!) that this answer is sufficient.

But it's not. It totally dodges the issue.

We know how these DNA sequences form, and how they are handed down. This is sophomore-level genetics course material. We know that when we find these matching sequences, we can use it to pinpoint family lineages.

As I have pointed out, this technique is used in court to tell if a child alleged to be the child of a deadbeat father is actually from his DNA line... if it is, the child will have his family's particular set of markers. The technique is used to tell if the blood or semen left at a crime scene belongs to the accused, because if it is then he is the rapist and if it is not his then he needs to be set free.

If what we're saying about humans and chimpanzees is not true, do you realize how many prisoners we would have to set free, tomorrow?

So please, try to be honest. Try to be rational, even if you don't like the conclusions. These are very basic facts about how DNA works.

As others have pointed out, there are many other ways to tell that the DNA of humans comes from the same family lineage as the other great apes, including the fusion of our Chromosome #2 with the smallest chromosome in the rest of the ape lineage, leaving the "chromosome ends" (telomeres) still visible at the point of fusion. There's no other reason for it to be like that unless such a fusion event occurred.

So please, again, try to be honest. Stop squeezing your eyes shut and grasping at ridiculous straws. Evolution is reality.

Humans are:

Eukaryotes - we have cells with nuclei and organelles. So we share the DNA sequences with all other eukaryotic creatures: that's what make us eukaryotes.

Vertebrates - we have bones and a spine that contains our spinal cord. (As above, we share the DNA "instructions" to make us vertebrates.)

Mammals - we have nipples and hair, give live vaginal birth to our young, and produce milk.

Placentals - we develop in a uterus with a placenta (not all mammals do)

Primates - we have prehensile hands with fingerprints and fingernails, highly mobile shoulder and hip joints, and reduced olfactory brain centers in favor of better eyesight... we are of the Haplorhini, or "dry nosed", sub-variety of primate.

Great Apes - we are tailless (externally), dependent for survival on social organization and learned behavior patterns, have an atrophied appendix, and five-cusped molar teeth (most monkeys have four-cusped ones). Our shoulders are fully rotating, and we have a body hair pattern that includes a highly visible, highly expressive face used to communicate emotions.

Hominds - we are bipedal and have larger brains than the other great apes.

and Humans - we have developed a gene set that allows for vocal communication at a high level of complexity.

That is your connection to the world. Be proud of it! And be proud of the fact that we have evolved intelligence to the point that (if we don't close our minds because we'd prefer to be magically made out of clay by a sky wizard) we can look at our own DNA and read our own history, there. We can look at the characteristics of other related animals and build a "tree of life" that shows how all those lineages diverged over the years into all the types of creature on earth today. I'll bet you're not even honest enough to read what I'm writing, and won't notice this sentence stuck in the middle of this paragraph. We can then develop DNA testing, decades after we built that tree of life from other evidence, and the DNA testing totally confirm what we did before, when it didn't have to, had we been wrong.

That's pretty amazing. And it's amazing to me that you refuse to see it. That you refuse to listen when others try to tell you about it. Instead of going, "wow, that's amazing!", you instead tell a whole new lie, like "we're 98% related to praying mantises".

Please remember, at all times: Lying for Jesus™ is still lying.
I don't know about troll face but I'm learning loads.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like adey67's post
14-11-2016, 12:58 PM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2016 01:30 PM by Velvet.)
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(14-11-2016 06:53 AM)adey67 Wrote:  I don't know about troll face but I'm learning loads.

Attempted to teach most of that to theists, on more than one occasion, but they are usually impervious to that kind (level) of knowledge...

Most theists are stucked into the ''its just a theory'' zone.

Either way rocket's writing skills are fucking amazing, I love his way of presenting things Yes

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
-P.C. Hodgell - Seeker’s Mask - Kirien
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Velvet's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: