Everyone Has Faith
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15-03-2015, 12:09 PM
RE: Everyone Has Faith
(15-03-2015 11:53 AM)NumberDigit Wrote:  In reality everyone has faith. You have to have faith in things otherwise you would go insane. You have faith that your bike is going to collapse when you are riding it because it either isn't that common or it hasn't happened to you. Let's get a discussion going on this. BTW, I am agnostic. I am not trying to get atheists to believe in God, I want everyone to be open minded.

This is true - trivially so - for some definitions of faith. The problem comes in when people equivocate between different definitions of faith and use it to gloss over rough terrain of epistemology and pretend that everyone is on the same, level playing field. For instance, someone might try and point out that my "faith" that the sun will rise tomorrow somehow justifies their "faith" that Jesus was raised from the dead. Those are two different kinds of "faith," and one in no way justifies the other.

Personally, I tend to avoid using the word "faith" because it has too many meanings and people are too eager to play word games with it. When people use it with me, I try to get them to use a different word ("okay, you just said that you believe x because you have faith. Can you say that back to me, convey the same message, without using the word "faith?").

I'm just thinking out loud.
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15-03-2015, 12:12 PM (This post was last modified: 15-03-2015 12:29 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Everyone Has Faith
(15-03-2015 11:53 AM)NumberDigit Wrote:  In reality everyone has faith. You have to have faith in things otherwise you would go insane. You have faith that your bike is going to collapse when you are riding it because it either isn't that common or it hasn't happened to you. Let's get a discussion going on this. BTW, I am agnostic. I am not trying to get atheists to believe in God, I want everyone to be open minded.

You haven't defined faith. Christian (believers) who claim they have "faith" also say it's a "gift from their god(s)". The sort of "expectation" you describe is not "faith", in the religious sense. It's based on your perceived probability that an event may or may not happen, based on the EVIDENCE of your personal (learned) past experiences.

So welcome, but don't tell me how my damn brain works, as it doesn't work the way you describe. Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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15-03-2015, 12:13 PM
RE: Everyone Has Faith
(15-03-2015 12:00 PM)NumberDigit Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 11:58 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Faith refers to a belief as it is not based on proof.

Anything where you are not sure can be consider faith? Also, isn't lacking a belief in God also a belief because you believe you have a reason to lack a belief in God?

Wow you jump to conclusions. I don't have "faith" in the weather man when he says the weather will be "whatever". I trust his judgement and experience.

Faith [to me] exists only where logic fails. So, no I don't have "faith" in anything.

I have concluded after exhaustive research, all god(s) were the invention of men. I do not believe in magic, supernatural, or mythic creatures like unicorns or leprechauns -- because there's no evidence any of those things ever existed.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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15-03-2015, 12:13 PM
RE: Everyone Has Faith
(15-03-2015 12:08 PM)NumberDigit Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 12:01 PM)The Polyglot Atheist Wrote:  First, I'm sure you meant "your bike isn't going to collapse", but no, I don't have faith that I won't collapse. Physics can explain why my bike won't collapse while I'm riding it. Certainly, there can be many factors that would cause it (slippery terrain, human error, etc), but they have nothing to do with faith.

Also, the trust that I have that something will work (as intended) such as the bike, is based on experience and evidence. We know, by experimentation, that riding a bike allows the same to stand instead of falling sideways. And this happens only when you stop. Or if you didn't see the truck when you were crossing the street.

Lastly, don't confuse faith and trust. They are two similar but different concepts. Having faith in a deity and having faith in your SO is not quite the same thing.

There is more evidence to have faith in yourself.

What if I had low self-esteem?

孤独 - The Out Crowd
Life is a flash of light between two eternities of darkness.
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15-03-2015, 12:16 PM
RE: Everyone Has Faith
(15-03-2015 12:05 PM)NumberDigit Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 12:01 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Before I ride a bike or get into my car, I don't rely on faith. I take care of my things. If something is broken its repaired. When I rode a bike I was taught that the responsible thing was to look it over to make sure it wouldn't just fall apart when I rode.

In other words your analogy is stupid.

What about the unexpected things like something suddenly becoming unstable. You have to trust yourself that you have done a good job checking. That is the reason why scientists repeat experiments over and over again and then have other people do the same. The majority of observations rely on faith that we are right because if we don't examine something perfectly and even if we do we could've missed something(our eyes can skip over things or paint false images in our mind).


You're conflating "faith" with trust.

I can trust the automaker or mechanic. I can trust a doctor. If they prove unworthy of my trust I'll go elsewhere.

I take nothing on faith.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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15-03-2015, 12:33 PM
RE: Everyone Has Faith
(15-03-2015 12:06 PM)NumberDigit Wrote:  Trusting yourself and trusting someone else is faith.

No, I can trust my husband because he's demonstrated his trustworthiness a million times. It's not faith.

If he hadn't we wouldn't be married for 26 years.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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15-03-2015, 12:45 PM
RE: Everyone Has Faith
(15-03-2015 12:33 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 12:06 PM)NumberDigit Wrote:  Trusting yourself and trusting someone else is faith.

No, I can trust my husband because he's demonstrated his trustworthiness a million times. It's not faith.
Universe exists for 13.8 billion years. That doesn't mean it can't stop existing at any moment.
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15-03-2015, 12:49 PM
RE: Everyone Has Faith
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15-03-2015, 12:53 PM
RE: Everyone Has Faith
(15-03-2015 12:45 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 12:33 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  No, I can trust my husband because he's demonstrated his trustworthiness a million times. It's not faith.
Universe exists for 13.8 billion years. That doesn't mean it can't stop existing at any moment.

The observable universe exists since 13.8 billion years. We can only measure the age of the universe after the big bang. We don't know if anything exists outside the observable universe or before the observable universe. So your point about faith is ?

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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15-03-2015, 12:55 PM
RE: Everyone Has Faith
(15-03-2015 12:53 PM)Leo Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 12:45 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  Universe exists for 13.8 billion years. That doesn't mean it can't stop existing at any moment.

The observable universe exists since 13.8 billion years. We can only measure the age of the universe after the big bang. We don't know if anything exists outside the observable universe or before the observable universe. So your point about faith is ?

He has no point about faith. He and diddles just show up with 'the world's gonna end' comments whenever they think they can squeeze them in. SSDD with those two. Dodgy

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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