Everyone Has Faith
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15-03-2015, 01:28 PM
RE: Everyone Has Faith
(15-03-2015 01:26 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 01:22 PM)Leo Wrote:  Ha ! ! Where is the evidence of that ? Several seconds already passed since posting my reply . Tongue again your point about faith is ?
Where were the evidence that speed of light was limited before Einstein?
You believe that universe will go on for billions of years but there no evidence of that, no law of physics which predicts when universe will end. So it still can end now.

What color is the sky on your planet?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-03-2015, 01:28 PM
RE: Everyone Has Faith
Consider
(15-03-2015 01:21 PM)One Above All Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 01:20 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  You believe that universe will exist billions of years. I don't believe it will exist even a second.

Cool, a mind-reader. Big Grin
Can you tell me what I believe in? Rolleyes

Yep. I never claimed to believe in anything. I was pointing out that we don't know EVERYTHING about the universe. I still don't see his point about faith.Consider

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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15-03-2015, 01:28 PM
RE: Everyone Has Faith
(15-03-2015 01:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 01:26 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  Where were the evidence that speed of light was limited before Einstein?
You believe that universe will go on for billions of years but there no evidence of that, no law of physics which predicts when universe will end. So it still can end now.

What color is the sky on your planet?

I doubt it matters - it will blow up in the next few seconds.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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15-03-2015, 01:32 PM
RE: Everyone Has Faith
(15-03-2015 01:26 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 01:22 PM)Leo Wrote:  Ha ! ! Where is the evidence of that ? Several seconds already passed since posting my reply . Tongue again your point about faith is ?
Where were the evidence that speed of light was limited before Einstein?
You believe that universe will go on for billions of years but there no evidence of that, no law of physics which predicts when universe will end. So it still can end now.

Your pathetic philosophical deepities are noted. Do please continue to enlighten us with your wisdom. Also you've clearly got no fucking clue re physics so please restrict yourself to stupid shit you could plausibly have an opinion on.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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15-03-2015, 02:04 PM (This post was last modified: 15-03-2015 02:13 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: Everyone Has Faith
Let's be clear exactly what we mean when we talk about faith here.

In a broad sense, faith can mean belief in something in the absence of a complete, unquestionable, perfectly-settled case for total confidence. People might rationally hold such beliefs out of a sense of high likelihood, or a practical need to be able to move forward absent theoretically perfect confidence, or because some alternative has not occurred to them. This includes extrapolating past trends into future likelihoods. You are correct in that most people do have this sort of faith, and it is this sort of faith that your examples (bicycles not falling apart) speak to.

It is not this sort of faith that a typical atheist rejects.

There's another, much narrower sense of the word faith. This type of faith is a belief perversely held absent good evidence, or even in spite of good evidence to the contrary. It isn't just belief absent total cause for certainty. It is belief absent any cause for certainty. This is what we might call religious faith, and it is this sort of faith that is dangerous when embraced and disastrous when mistaken for a virtue. It is this manner of faith that the typical atheist (including agnostic atheists) will reject.

Having drawn this distinction, which type of faith are you trying to argue that we have? That we hold the first is pushing against an open door, though we try to avoid the word itself because of how easily it then becomes confused with the second meaning. (Using the same word to refer to two different things comes at a cost of clarity.) The second sense is not supported by your arguments, and any equivalence drawn between rational faith of the first sort and blind faith of the second would be false. Or would you instead like to suggest that there is no meaningful distinction between the two? I'd maintain strongly that these two are highly different in at least degree, and to such a degree that there is also a difference of kind.

So, which exactly are you arguing for?

(Also, do you really expect us to believe that you don't understand the distinction between the two, or that you don't get which one we're rejecting?)

(Another common equivocation-swaparoo that often gets pulled on us is faith referring both to belief absent evidence/certainty, and to the sort of trust and trustworthiness found in a relationship. You're not going there, so let's just say that latter sort of faith is not the topic of discussion.)
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15-03-2015, 02:09 PM
RE: Everyone Has Faith
(15-03-2015 01:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 01:26 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  Where were the evidence that speed of light was limited before Einstein?
You believe that universe will go on for billions of years but there no evidence of that, no law of physics which predicts when universe will end. So it still can end now.

What color is the sky on your planet?
So atheist must be optimist always?
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15-03-2015, 02:11 PM
RE: Everyone Has Faith
and about trusted partners


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15-03-2015, 02:11 PM
RE: Everyone Has Faith
(15-03-2015 01:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 12:56 PM)NumberDigit Wrote:  If you trust from past experience you have faith that things are going to keep going the same way and not change suddenly.

No. Just no. Please stop conflating the definitions of the word.

Please define faith and trust for me.
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15-03-2015, 02:13 PM
RE: Everyone Has Faith
(15-03-2015 02:09 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 01:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  What color is the sky on your planet?
So atheist must be optimist always?

Your drivel bores me.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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15-03-2015, 02:17 PM
RE: Everyone Has Faith
(15-03-2015 02:11 PM)NumberDigit Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 01:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  No. Just no. Please stop conflating the definitions of the word.

Please define faith and trust for me.

Faith is given blindly. Trust is earned.
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