Everyone hates environmentalists and feminists
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03-10-2013, 12:07 PM
RE: Everyone hates environmentalists and feminists
(03-10-2013 10:50 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(03-10-2013 05:30 AM)Chas Wrote:  Seriously? What is your level of fear of being raped by a woman?

Does the possibility of it ever even dimly intrude on your risk assessment?

And why not? Because it is so freakin' rare.

I don't see what my or anybodies risk assessment has to do with definition of certain crime.
That is a completely subjective and circumstantial thing.
Some people are more afraid of getting robbed, some are less, some take precautions, some don't. Some are more in risk of getting robbed , and some are less.
Risk assessment of of getting robbed doesn't affect the definition of robbery and we don't take that into account when we define robbery in our laws, do we?
Why would that be different for rape or any other crime?

I really don't see what were you trying to say. If I get raped it doesn't count as a rape because I wasn't afraid of getting rape beforehand and it doesn't count because chances of me getting raped were small ?

And it is rare...how do we know it is rare? Statistically?
When we define rape in a way that will surely produce stats that man get raped rarely and that vast majority of rapist are man, and then we use the same stats to justify the definition, we are just employing a circular logic.

If we change the definition to what it should be, then we might find out that it isn't so rare after all.

Finally, why does it matter if it is rare?
Penetration is a method of rape ( yes, it is a most common method, but still just one of possible methods) , it is not what should define a rape as a rape.
Because other methods are rare that shouldn't affect the definition.
I.e. poisoning is ,compered to other methods of murder, extremely rare, but that doesn't make it less of a murder and it doesn't make the victim less dead.

next part is a bit graphic...
The whole penetration thing is stupid. It is very unclear. Penetrated by what? Does only dick count? What about fingering someone against his will, do fingers count?
And where? What about other objects? If you stick a beer bottle in someones ass is that a rape by this definition ?
What if there is no penetration, if you force somebody to take off his clothes and lick your asshole and jerk you off, that is not a rape because there was no penetration?
And it says "penetration by the offender", so If you force somebody to put a strap on and fuck you in the ass. Who is getting raped then ?

I am pointing out that the fact is the incidence of rape of women hugely outweighs the incidence of rape of men. That's it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-10-2013, 12:29 PM
RE: Everyone hates environmentalists and feminists
That's undeniably true. Nobody in the right mind would dispute that.

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03-10-2013, 12:37 PM
RE: Everyone hates environmentalists and feminists
(03-10-2013 12:29 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  That's undeniably true. Nobody in the right mind would dispute that.

I thought you were disputing that, but I must have misunderstood your post. Consider

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03-10-2013, 01:31 PM
RE: Everyone hates environmentalists and feminists
No, I was just arguing that the low incidence of man being raped should not affect the definition of rape. Especially not in such a way that implies that man can't be raped, or in the way that implies that only man can rape.

if I may use yet another example. ...wast majority of soldiers all around the world are man. But it would be clearly wrong for law to define a soldier in a way that implies that only man can be considered a soldier , because that discriminates against all the women that are soldiers , and has a consequence of women being denied benefits of being a soldier.
In the same way , even tho wast majority of rape victims are women, it is wrong to define rape in a way that implies that only women can be raped , because that discriminates against man who were victims of rape, that has a consequence of man being denied legal protection from rape.

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03-10-2013, 10:36 PM
RE: Everyone hates environmentalists and feminists
(03-10-2013 01:31 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  No, I was just arguing that the low incidence of man being raped should not affect the definition of rape. Especially not in such a way that implies that man can't be raped, or in the way that implies that only man can rape.

if I may use yet another example. ...wast majority of soldiers all around the world are man. But it would be clearly wrong for law to define a soldier in a way that implies that only man can be considered a soldier , because that discriminates against all the women that are soldiers , and has a consequence of women being denied benefits of being a soldier.
In the same way , even tho wast majority of rape victims are women, it is wrong to define rape in a way that implies that only women can be raped , because that discriminates against man who were victims of rape, that has a consequence of man being denied legal protection from rape.


You bring up a good point about how horrible it is for men who do not have the same legal protections when raped. I've had the experience a handful of times of individuals revealing to me they were raped. Only once it was a man who revealed he was raped in high school when he was younger. All of those revelations were difficult to hear, and they all had many similar feelings of being violated. The difference was that on top of all the harm that happens to rape victims, the man had to deal with heightened skepticism from people he knew who refused to believe it ever happened. When a man is raped, the man has to deal with the humiliation that many in society view him as less of a man because he was raped, and prosecutors know that a jury trial for a male rape victim goes nowhere.
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03-10-2013, 11:42 PM
RE: Everyone hates environmentalists and feminists
So er... all this means that those evil Feminists are to blame ?
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04-10-2013, 02:09 AM
RE: Everyone hates environmentalists and feminists
Ok, I need to say this .

Please, do understand that nothing I wrote here is aimed against women.
I am NOT denying that woman right are human rights, I am just reminding that man are human too.

The main point of what I am trying to say can fit in one sentence actually.

EQUALITY CAN'T BE ACHIEVED BY FAVORING ONE GROUP OVER ANOTHER.

My point about feminism is that it clearly favors one group rights (and I think that I showed that to the satisfying degree and there is nothing presented here to show otherwise ) over another group rights and thus it is not a good road to achieve equality.

That's it. Nothing else, nothing more, nothing less.

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04-10-2013, 12:57 PM
RE: Everyone hates environmentalists and feminists
(04-10-2013 02:09 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  The main point of what I am trying to say can fit in one sentence actually.

EQUALITY CAN'T BE ACHIEVED BY FAVORING ONE GROUP OVER ANOTHER.

My point about feminism is that it clearly favors one group rights (and I think that I showed that to the satisfying degree and there is nothing presented here to show otherwise ) over another group rights and thus it is not a good road to achieve equality.

Yes.

Except of course, the part where that isn't true.

For your consideration:
Did the American civil rights movement not represent equality, favouring as it did the rights of one particular group?

Feminism arose from a situation wherein women were much more disadvantaged than men (we call this history - not that it's magically all gone!). Not that only women were disadvantaged (nobody sane has ever said this) or that men should be disadvantaged instead (nobody sane has ever said this) or that if everyone is disadvantaged only women's issues matter (nobody sane has ever said this). The most direct way to improve the general situation is to focus on those worst off. QED.

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04-10-2013, 02:16 PM
RE: Everyone hates environmentalists and feminists
Seriously bro? U are compering this




to this:


"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." -- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.

"We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage." -- Robin Morgan

"To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he's a machine, a walking *****." -- Valerie Solanas, Authoress of the SCUM Manifesto

"The male is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness...can be trained to do most things." -- Jilly Cooper, SCUM (Society For Cutting Up Men, started by Valerie Solanas)

"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." -- Andrea Dworkin

"The institution of sexual intercourse is anti-feminist" -- Ti-Grace Atkinson

"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman." -- Catherine MacKinnon

"The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men." -- Sharon Stone; Actress

"The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." -- Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future - If There Is One - Is Female.

"Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience." - Catherine Comins

"All men are rapists and that's all they are" -- Marilyn French, Authoress; (later, advisoress to Al Gore's Presidential Campaign.)


??

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04-10-2013, 03:01 PM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2013 03:07 PM by Slowminded.)
RE: Everyone hates environmentalists and feminists
Something you might want to watch, I recommend it







This one especially





skip to about 4 mins into a video




For somewhat different perspective on "history"








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