Evidence Of Absence.
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23-08-2015, 08:45 PM
RE: Evidence Of Absence.
(23-08-2015 08:37 PM)Free Wrote:  You do of course understand that faith and belief are synonymous?

Is that what you've been hung up on this whole time?

No! Belief and faith are most definitely not synonymous.

belief = you think it's true/reality

faith = belief not based on proof

knowledge = true belief formed by sound reasoning
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23-08-2015, 08:45 PM
RE: Evidence Of Absence.
(23-08-2015 08:07 PM)Free Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 07:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  It depends on the claim.

If someone claims they saw a pack of jackals roaming the downtown streets, surveillance video would show that it was not true.

If someone claimed to see a flock of flying pigs, the evidence is that it is not physically possible for pigs to fly.

I don't think these are great analogies to compare to something that has no evidence for its existence at all, such as the God claim. I mean we know pigs exist, albeit, they don't fly. And jackals exist. We can counter or confirm those things. They can be falsified and/or proven.

But the positive claim of existence of God is unfalsifiable save for the Evidence of Absence, and unprovable due to no physical or demonstrable evidence.

The positive claim that there is a possibility that God could exist lacks the exact same evidence required to support the positive claim that God does exist.

Hence, both the proposed possibility and the asserted actuality of the existence of God lack even a shred of evidence to qualify either as being an existence.

How do we claim that something is possible when it lacks any and all evidence for its existence?

By the absence of evidence for its impossibility.

Quote:I don't understand. It simply ... doesn't parse.

How very droll. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-08-2015, 08:46 PM
RE: Evidence Of Absence.
(23-08-2015 08:34 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Actually, energy storage is a more interesting problem to me; superconductivity theoretically admits of indefinitely lossless reservoirs. And since peak demand is both the limiting factor in power infrastructure and a major source of loss, while simultaneously the largest drawback of existing renewable generation methods...

Unlimited reservoirs that don't lose energy despite unlimited demand? So the only thing anyone would need to do is create larger capacity reservoirs as demand increases? Is that how it would work?

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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23-08-2015, 08:48 PM
RE: Evidence Of Absence.
(23-08-2015 08:46 PM)Free Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 08:34 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Actually, energy storage is a more interesting problem to me; superconductivity theoretically admits of indefinitely lossless reservoirs. And since peak demand is both the limiting factor in power infrastructure and a major source of loss, while simultaneously the largest drawback of existing renewable generation methods...

Unlimited reservoirs that don't lose energy despite unlimited demand? So the only thing anyone would need to do is create larger capacity reservoirs as demand increases? Is that how it would work?

He didn't actually say "unlimited". Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-08-2015, 08:50 PM
RE: Evidence Of Absence.
(23-08-2015 08:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  
Quote:How do we claim that something is possible when it lacks any and all evidence for its existence?

By the absence of evidence for its impossibility.

Which would be the Evidence of Absence.

Quote:
Quote:I don't understand. It simply ... doesn't parse.

How very droll. Drinking Beverage

You had to know it was coming.

Tongue

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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23-08-2015, 08:50 PM
RE: Evidence Of Absence.
(23-08-2015 08:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 08:46 PM)Free Wrote:  Unlimited reservoirs that don't lose energy despite unlimited demand? So the only thing anyone would need to do is create larger capacity reservoirs as demand increases? Is that how it would work?

He didn't actually say "unlimited". Consider

Indefinitely?

I could be wrong ...

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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23-08-2015, 08:51 PM
RE: Evidence Of Absence.
(23-08-2015 08:50 PM)Free Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 08:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  By the absence of evidence for its impossibility.

Which would be the Evidence of Absence.

No, it wouldn't. That doesn't even make sense.

Quote:
Quote:How very droll. Drinking Beverage

You had to know it was coming.

Tongue

No, because it was a very strained joke.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-08-2015, 08:54 PM
RE: Evidence Of Absence.
(23-08-2015 08:50 PM)Free Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 08:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  He didn't actually say "unlimited". Consider

Indefinitely?

I could be wrong ...

Current power storage technologies all 'leak'. A superconductor-based power storage might not leak.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-08-2015, 08:54 PM
RE: Evidence Of Absence.
(23-08-2015 08:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 08:07 PM)Free Wrote:  I don't think these are great analogies to compare to something that has no evidence for its existence at all, such as the God claim. I mean we know pigs exist, albeit, they don't fly. And jackals exist. We can counter or confirm those things. They can be falsified and/or proven.

But the positive claim of existence of God is unfalsifiable save for the Evidence of Absence, and unprovable due to no physical or demonstrable evidence.

The positive claim that there is a possibility that God could exist lacks the exact same evidence required to support the positive claim that God does exist.

Hence, both the proposed possibility and the asserted actuality of the existence of God lack even a shred of evidence to qualify either as being an existence.

How do we claim that something is possible when it lacks any and all evidence for its existence?

By the absence of evidence for its impossibility.

Quote:I don't understand. It simply ... doesn't parse.

How very droll. Drinking Beverage

I think I somewhat agree with free here. Just because we can't prove something is impossible, doesn't mean that it is possible. It works both ways. Just because we can't prove something is possible, doesn't mean that it's impossible.

And, yes, the claim that god is possible requires evidence that proves it.
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23-08-2015, 08:56 PM
RE: Evidence Of Absence.
(23-08-2015 08:51 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 08:50 PM)Free Wrote:  Which would be the Evidence of Absence.

No, it wouldn't. That doesn't even make sense.

Of course it does. The absence of the evidence to support the possibility can be used as positive demonstrable evidence. Hence, the Evidence of Absence.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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