Evidence for the Resurrection and 500 Witnesses?
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02-06-2016, 02:47 PM
Evidence for the Resurrection and 500 Witnesses?
What is the best evidence we have that tells us that no crucifixion or resurrection ever took place?
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02-06-2016, 02:49 PM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2016 02:53 PM by skyking.)
RE: Evidence for the Resurrection and 500 Witnesses?
Goodwithoutgod posted many links and posted about this subject either today or last night. take a look at his links. Take a look around.
Edit: I found it. It was in your 40 different authors thread, post number 27.
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02-06-2016, 03:01 PM
RE: Evidence for the Resurrection and 500 Witnesses?
(02-06-2016 02:47 PM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  What is the best evidence we have that tells us that no crucifixion or resurrection ever took place?

Crucifixions took place all the time back then. The torture device Christians commonly depict as a lower case "t" is bullshit. And the nails through the palms would not have been done that way.

Crucifixions would have been a capital "T" and the nails would have gone through the wrist, not the palm. And the Romans constantly murdered whomever they thought was an challenge to their authority with the exact same method.

It is circular reasoning that the "500" number was added by the NT writers after the fact. It was not a real Jesus they knew existed, but a character they created after the fact to bolster a new movement. Everyone loves an underdog story.

The fact still remains that science knows today, that there is no such thing as a magic baby born without a second set of DNA who has super powers. And it also remains that no human can survive having all the blood drained out of their body, suffer complete organ and brain death only to magically survive rigor mortis.

"500" was simply a literary device to over conflate the myth. Just like in making Hollywood movies, they use camera angles and computer graphics to create an illusion that is bullshit.

There is no such thing as a magic baby with super powers.

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02-06-2016, 03:03 PM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2016 04:32 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: Evidence for the Resurrection and 500 Witnesses?
(02-06-2016 02:47 PM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  What is the best evidence we have that tells us that no crucifixion or resurrection ever took place?

Dude, it’s obvious you haven’t taken the time to read through the thread I linked for you on one of you’re other 16 threads in 57 posts. Please, I implore you on all that is holy, please read through this before you keep making new threads. Weeping

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...rce-thread

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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02-06-2016, 03:21 PM
RE: Evidence for the Resurrection and 500 Witnesses?
(02-06-2016 02:47 PM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  What is the best evidence we have that tells us that no crucifixion or resurrection ever took place?
What evidence would I look for if I was trying to prove that my wife didn't make a cup of tea this morning?

Perhaps I would expect that there would be a cup of hot tea somewhere?
If I don't find the cup of hot tea, does that mean I have evidence that my wife didn't make a cup of tea or is it the case that I haven't looked in the right place or that my wife has already drunk her cup of tea?

Perhaps I would expect to find a dirty cup lying around somewhere, where otherwise I wouldn't expect to find a dirty dish because dishes were washed the night before?
If I don't find a dirty cup then do I have compelling evidence OR could it be that I didn't look in the correct place, or could it be that my wife has already done the dishes this morning?
Perhaps I would expect the tea towel to be wet, but perhaps she has already put it in the washing machine?

Trying to prove a negative is impossible.

BUT, there might be evidence that she did make a cup of tea this morning.
Perhaps I find that the jug has very hot water in it, perhaps I find a wet and warm tea bag in the rubbish bin, perhaps I find a cup with hot tea in it. Perhaps there is no-one else in the house and I don't remember having made the cup of tea myself.


It seems to me that the burden of proof is on the people that make the claim that Jesus died and came back to life.

It's an extra-ordinary claim as we know that animals don't die for three days and then get up and walk around. So extra-ordinary that we ought to be highly skeptical of such an unbelievable claim.
An eye witness is not enough evidence, people can easily be fooled as to what they see, just go to a magic show or a Benny Hinn show.

Now if you have stories written by non witness people many decades after the alleged event, well, we ought to assume the stories are fiction, dreamed up by the infinite imagination of people. In order to promote this from fiction to truth, you would need compelling evidence. Where is this evidence? Where?
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02-06-2016, 03:37 PM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2016 03:56 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Evidence for the Resurrection and 500 Witnesses?
I'll humor you one more time .. then please do some searches. All this stuff is covered on TTA.

1. If 500 dead people got up and walked around Jerusalem, SOMONE would have reported it to the Romans or the Jews. There is not ONE secular reference to this. Anywhere. Certainly Philo (a Jewish historian), who commented on far less extraordinary things, would have mentioned it.
2. The temple curtain was (supposedly) ripped, top to bottom, spontaneously. The curtain in the Holy of Holies (supposedly) ripped and exposed the room where the High Priest could only go, once per year. Yet not one Jew mentions this ?? No. Jews for centuries would have noted this, and been arguing about what it meant.
3. It says "graves were opened" .... yet not one opened grave was ever documented. Not ONE name of the zombies was ever documented. Then what happened to them ? Did they climb back into their graves ? Go to zombie camp ? The Romans never mentioned the zombie invasion ... yet they talked about all sorts of other, less important stuff. Such amazing things, yet only Matthew mentions this ? I think not.
4. No Roman or Jew bothered to go find this criminal they had just executed, and interrupted their Passover weekends with executing.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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02-06-2016, 03:48 PM
RE: Evidence for the Resurrection and 500 Witnesses?
Witness are also not a 100% reliably source of information. Contrary to what Hollywood would have you believe. Eyewitness accounts/ testimonies are usually scrapping the bottom of the barrel. They rely primarily on forensic science to determine events.

A resent event that can be used for evidence of this is 9-11. Conspiracy nuts have gone crazy over people that say they saw missiles hit the towers. That people that reach the seen of the pentagon first saw dabree from rockets.

Another would be Roswell. The stories of Extra Terrestrials crashing landing in New Mexico. All stem from one farmers eyewitness account.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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02-06-2016, 03:56 PM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2016 04:14 PM by WillHopp.)
RE: Evidence for the Resurrection and 500 Witnesses?
(02-06-2016 03:01 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 02:47 PM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  What is the best evidence we have that tells us that no crucifixion or resurrection ever took place?

Crucifixions took place all the time back then. The torture device Christians commonly depict as a lower case "t" is bullshit. And the nails through the palms would not have been done that way.

Crucifixions would have been a capital "T" and the nails would have gone through the wrist, not the palm. And the Romans constantly murdered whomever they thought was an challenge to their authority with the exact same method.

Actually, I saw a very compelling documentary on this that posited an X, and it made a lot of sense. I'll look for it on YT and put it here if I find it.

EDITED FOR UPDATE: I couldn't find it on You Tube. But it was interesting.

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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02-06-2016, 05:04 PM
RE: Evidence for the Resurrection and 500 Witnesses?
(02-06-2016 02:47 PM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  What is the best evidence we have that tells us that no crucifixion or resurrection ever took place?

Wrong question; leave the burden of proof squarely on the person claiming that there was a resurrection. The time to believe is when there is compelling evidence for such an extraordinary event. There is no need to look for evidence against it since the evidence for it is so underwhelming.

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02-06-2016, 05:34 PM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2016 07:41 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Evidence for the Resurrection and 500 Witnesses?
(02-06-2016 02:47 PM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  What is the best evidence we have that tells us that no crucifixion or resurrection ever took place?

An empty tomb does not a resurrection make.

Paul claims that after the resurrection Jesus manifested himself in front of the disciples, James, 500 witnesses and finally Paul.

Odd no one bothered to write that down....."executed alleged messiah appeared before me and 499 other witnesses today"......not one word mentioned by a single witness....except for of course Paul. Paul doesn't count because he is the founder of the religion, thus anything he says is automatically suspect without collaborating proof. When the only witness to magic is the person leading a cult, then that is clearly not the litmus test for validation. That person (Paul) has an agenda...the spread of his cult.

I applaud your energy and thirst for knowledge. I also see you have become adept at making new threads, which is great for restarting old conversations as our membership continues to grow. I would recommend though that you spend a few hours browsing some of the resources, that way when you start a thread you can have some info to flesh out your question/doubt/item for discussion. I share this opinion with the utmost respect and hope it doesn't come across the wrong way. By all means, question things...it is the first step down the epistemological path to knowledge.

(02-06-2016 05:04 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 02:47 PM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  What is the best evidence we have that tells us that no crucifixion or resurrection ever took place?

Wrong question; leave the burden of proof squarely on the person claiming that there was a resurrection. The time to believe is when there is compelling evidence for such an extraordinary event. There is no need to look for evidence against it since the evidence for it is so underwhelming.

This is a brilliant and erudite point. It is like me asking you....what is the best evidence we have that tells us the Great Pumpkin is not the creator of all life? We don't need evidence, it is upon the claimant who makes extraordinary claims to prove them, it is not the recipient of the claim's responsibility to disprove ridiculous claims.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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