Evidence for the Resurrection and 500 Witnesses?
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02-06-2016, 05:38 PM
RE: Evidence for the Resurrection and 500 Witnesses?
You're asking the wrong question.

What's the best evidence that a crucifixion and subsequent resurrection DID occur???


Hint -- moldy old books written by goat herders who thought the earth was the flat, and the center of the universe are not generally considered "proof"...............

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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02-06-2016, 05:39 PM
RE: Evidence for the Resurrection and 500 Witnesses?
(02-06-2016 02:47 PM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  What is the best evidence we have that tells us that no crucifixion or resurrection ever took place?

What is the best evidence we have that tells us you don't beat your wife?

#sigh
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02-06-2016, 05:51 PM
RE: Evidence for the Resurrection and 500 Witnesses?
(02-06-2016 02:47 PM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  What is the best evidence we have that tells us that no crucifixion or resurrection ever took place?

I love that it's a nice round number.... 500. It wasn't 473 or 507 or 491 but a nice round 500. I'm astonished! What are the chances.

You know Skeptical, if you read other god stories it's amazing how similar many of them are. Most gods defy the normal constraints that us ordinary folks are required to obey. Most gods have unusual births. Buddha, who isn't even supposed to be a god, was almost turned into a god through storytelling. (and some people worship him anyway) His mother dreamed that a white elephant descended from heaven and entered her womb. The white elephant entering her womb indicated that on that very night she was to conceive a child who was a pure and powerful being. Of course us westerners laugh at the elephant part but it really isn't that much different than the Jesus birth story, it's just that people wrote the Jesus story down after a couple generations of storytelling. (ever play the telephone game?) And remember Buddha isn't even a god but people need to elevate heroes beyond the ordinary. If they were unique people they must have had a unique birth.

God stories always involve defying the ordinary physics that keep us mortals chained to the earth. They fly or change into another being or animal. They walk through fire or walk on water or can survive without food and most importantly, they defy death.

Of all the things humans dread it's death. Probably our greatest dream would be to not die..... just like the gods in our stories. Inspired by this greatest of all wishes religions have created special rules and regulations that us mortals must follow to also defy death. Through religion we ordinary folk believe that we too can go against nature, hang onto the coattails of a god and live forever. That's what ALL religions are about. It doesn't make it real though. All living things die. It's just wishful thinking to believe otherwise.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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02-06-2016, 06:22 PM
RE: Evidence for the Resurrection and 500 Witnesses?
(02-06-2016 05:34 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 05:04 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Wrong question; leave the burden of proof squarely on the person claiming that there was a resurrection. The time to believe is when there is compelling evidence for such an extraordinary event. There is no need to look for evidence against it since the evidence for it is so underwhelming.

This is a brilliant and erudite point.

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02-06-2016, 06:29 PM
RE: Evidence for the Resurrection and 500 Witnesses?
(02-06-2016 03:21 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 02:47 PM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  What is the best evidence we have that tells us that no crucifixion or resurrection ever took place?
What evidence would I look for if I was trying to prove that my wife didn't make a cup of tea this morning?

Perhaps I would expect that there would be a cup of hot tea somewhere?
If I don't find the cup of hot tea, does that mean I have evidence that my wife didn't make a cup of tea or is it the case that I haven't looked in the right place or that my wife has already drunk her cup of tea?

Perhaps I would expect to find a dirty cup lying around somewhere, where otherwise I wouldn't expect to find a dirty dish because dishes were washed the night before?
If I don't find a dirty cup then do I have compelling evidence OR could it be that I didn't look in the correct place, or could it be that my wife has already done the dishes this morning?
Perhaps I would expect the tea towel to be wet, but perhaps she has already put it in the washing machine?

Trying to prove a negative is impossible.

BUT, there might be evidence that she did make a cup of tea this morning.
Perhaps I find that the jug has very hot water in it, perhaps I find a wet and warm tea bag in the rubbish bin, perhaps I find a cup with hot tea in it. Perhaps there is no-one else in the house and I don't remember having made the cup of tea myself.


It seems to me that the burden of proof is on the people that make the claim that Jesus died and came back to life.

It's an extra-ordinary claim as we know that animals don't die for three days and then get up and walk around. So extra-ordinary that we ought to be highly skeptical of such an unbelievable claim.
An eye witness is not enough evidence, people can easily be fooled as to what they see, just go to a magic show or a Benny Hinn show.

Now if you have stories written by non witness people many decades after the alleged event, well, we ought to assume the stories are fiction, dreamed up by the infinite imagination of people. In order to promote this from fiction to truth, you would need compelling evidence. Where is this evidence? Where?

Easily fooled, yes, one of the accounts even says that Mary thought she saw the gardener, and later decided it was her Jesus!
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02-06-2016, 07:00 PM
RE: Evidence for the Resurrection and 500 Witnesses?
(02-06-2016 03:01 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  And the Romans constantly murdered whomever they thought was an challenge to their authority with the exact same method.

I disagree with the above. Roman law was exact. They needed very good reasons to judge someone worthy of death in their highly complex law courts. And no Roman citizen could receive the death sentence. No matter the crime.

It was actually the catholic church who portrayed Rome as an evil pagan empire that fell so xianity could rise. In fact Rome was xian far longer than it was pagan.

The cross was used specifically for enemies of the state, such as Spartacus and his slave army. Who went to war with Rome. Slaves under certain crimes could also be crucified. Although this was rare. The slave had no human rights of any kind.

Jesus did not fall under this crime. The Romans would not have used this method on him. The law would not allow it. In fact Jesus was pro Rome.

Rome did not wish to kill its tax paying citizens. Execution was usually beheading. Or if games were due, persons with the death penalty could be killed in the arena, either by beasts or man. The same could happen to slaves captured in war.

As for nails. Only one nail has ever been found. It seems more common that people were tied to the stake. Romans did not waste metal it seems.

Emperors killing rivals by beheading could go beyond the courts. Such as the 20.000 who died by the sword when Caracalla took power. These people were disposed of quickly. Were they crucified they may have elicited sympathy.

Laws were also modified over time. One must understand that Rome became a true empire after the second Punic war and lasted until May 29 1453.

The laws under Claudius were very different to those established by Justinian.

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I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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