Evidence for the existence of God
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
11-01-2017, 04:47 PM
RE: Evidence for the existence of God
(11-01-2017 04:21 PM)Yadayadayada Wrote:  
(11-01-2017 03:58 PM)pablo Wrote:  I'd be happy if someone could give me a coherent description of god first. Then we could tackle the problem of evidence for it's existence.

Sure. Simply put, the biblical God is a spirit person, the Creator of Heaven and of our physical Universe, and all life therein.

In scientific terms, he is the First Cause.
Facepalm

the more important question here is, do you honestly not see the problem of that rationale or do you really believe what your saying ?

if god is the first cause then what caused the first cause ?
if your answer is god doesn't need a cause to come into existence out of nothing then why should anything else need a cause ?

spirit and heaven have no evidence to support their existence

but lets ignore all that and assume god exists and created everything...... this is all fine and dandy except for the big annoying inconvenient question of "WHY?"
whats the whole point of creating us and the universe ?

humans occupy a tiny spec of dirt in an remote unnoticeable corner in this inhospitable vast universe so its obviously not created with us in mind
also why create humans ? what purpose do we serve in all this ?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like Ace's post
11-01-2017, 04:48 PM
RE: Evidence for the existence of God
(11-01-2017 04:24 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  How do you know a first cause is required for the universe to exist?

How do you go from "first cause" to "intelligent supernatural being that listens to prayers and inspired humans to write the bible?"

Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause. The universe has a beginning of its existence, therefore the universe has a cause.

It is obvious to me that our infinitely complex universe could not be created by anyone other than a highly intelligent being.

As for why I believe that Creator is the God of the Bible who listens to prayers etc. is a separate question in itself that I will gladly answer in another thread.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-01-2017, 04:50 PM
RE: Evidence for the existence of God
(11-01-2017 04:48 PM)Yadayadayada Wrote:  
(11-01-2017 04:24 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  How do you know a first cause is required for the universe to exist?

How do you go from "first cause" to "intelligent supernatural being that listens to prayers and inspired humans to write the bible?"

Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause. The universe has a beginning of its existence, therefore the universe has a cause.

It is obvious to me that our infinitely complex universe could not be created by anyone other than a highly intelligent being.

As for why I believe that Creator is the God of the Bible who listens to prayers etc. is a separate question in itself that I will gladly answer in another thread.

How are you defining "obvious" Wink

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like jennybee's post
11-01-2017, 04:52 PM
RE: Evidence for the existence of God
(11-01-2017 04:48 PM)Yadayadayada Wrote:  
(11-01-2017 04:24 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  How do you know a first cause is required for the universe to exist?

How do you go from "first cause" to "intelligent supernatural being that listens to prayers and inspired humans to write the bible?"

Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause. The universe has a beginning of its existence, therefore the universe has a cause.

It is obvious to me that our infinitely complex universe could not be created by anyone other than a highly intelligent being.

As for why I believe that Creator is the God of the Bible who listens to prayers etc. is a separate question in itself that I will gladly answer in another thread.

You assert that everything that has a beginning must have a cause, but that isn't evidence that the universe did. It's an assumption you're making. An assumption that, as others have already said, is made and refuted constantly here.

You ignored my latter question. In fact, you ignored the first one too even though you responded. How do you KNOW the universe has a "first cause" considering there was no time or space before the origin of the universe for a first cause to initiate?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheBeardedDude's post
11-01-2017, 04:52 PM
RE: Evidence for the existence of God
(11-01-2017 04:30 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(11-01-2017 04:27 PM)Yadayadayada Wrote:  Funnily enough, it is so that some here do not try to change definitions to suit their bias.

Yes, it is a simple word, isn't it? Yet some are struggling to answer the question.

There is literally no one here (besides you) struggling to define a word that has already been defined in a variety of places. Don't project onto us because you don't want to present your bullshit Drinking Beverage

I do not need to "project". Just go back and look at your own posts. It is not me who is struggling to define a simple word.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-01-2017, 04:52 PM
RE: Evidence for the existence of God
(11-01-2017 04:50 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(11-01-2017 04:48 PM)Yadayadayada Wrote:  Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause. The universe has a beginning of its existence, therefore the universe has a cause.

It is obvious to me that our infinitely complex universe could not be created by anyone other than a highly intelligent being.

As for why I believe that Creator is the God of the Bible who listens to prayers etc. is a separate question in itself that I will gladly answer in another thread.

How are you defining "obvious" Wink

"Obvious" = "I believe it so it's "obvious" and if you don't believe it then you must be irrational"

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheBeardedDude's post
11-01-2017, 04:53 PM
RE: Evidence for the existence of God
(11-01-2017 04:52 PM)Yadayadayada Wrote:  
(11-01-2017 04:30 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  There is literally no one here (besides you) struggling to define a word that has already been defined in a variety of places. Don't project onto us because you don't want to present your bullshit Drinking Beverage

I do not need to "project". Just go back and look at your own posts. It is not me who is struggling to define a simple word.

You didn't click the link I gave you, did you? Do you own a dictionary? Presumably you have google at your disposal so...what's your problem?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-01-2017, 04:57 PM
RE: Evidence for the existence of God
(11-01-2017 04:48 PM)Yadayadayada Wrote:  
(11-01-2017 04:24 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  How do you know a first cause is required for the universe to exist?

How do you go from "first cause" to "intelligent supernatural being that listens to prayers and inspired humans to write the bible?"

Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause. The universe has a beginning of its existence, therefore the universe has a cause.

Everything within the universe has a cause. The universe is not within the universe so that rule doesn't apply. It's a classic mistake of generalizing common sense to uncommon phenomena.

Think of it this way. A cause is an event in space and time. Neither of those exist "prior" to the universe so there cannot be any causes. Causes precede effects, but that simply can't happen in a timeless void.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 8 users Like Paleophyte's post
11-01-2017, 04:57 PM
RE: Evidence for the existence of God
(11-01-2017 04:48 PM)Yadayadayada Wrote:  Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause. The universe has a beginning of its existence, therefore the universe has a cause.
We're not exactly sure that the universe actually does have a cause, nor whether it began at a particular time. The Big Bang theory only can only take us back so far (13.772 billion years, +/-). Previous to that, we don't know what - if anything - existed. The universe may have existed in some form since, well, infinity. We just don't know.

Quote:It is obvious to me that our infinitely complex universe could not be created by anyone other than a highly intelligent being.
(emphasis added)

And that's where your logic, sad to say, goes off the rails.

It may be obvious to you, but it's not obvious to me, nor has it been obvious or verifiable by testable means (which we discussed in my earlier post in this thread).

Now, that doesn't mean that we can prove there isn't a God, but it does mean that proof of a God - any God - has not yet been established, in 2000+ years of trying.

Proof might arise tomorrow, but as it is right now, sorry to say, you've got nothing.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 9 users Like Heath_Tierney's post
11-01-2017, 05:01 PM
RE: Evidence for the existence of God
I'm hearing a lot of argument but no evidence. The existence of the universe does not let me examine, poke or prod god.

Evidence Fail

Evidence, not argument.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like Paleophyte's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: