Evidence for the resurrection of Jesus...ENJOY!
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17-10-2012, 04:04 PM
RE: Evidence for the resurrection of Jesus...ENJOY!
Scene:

You arrive at home to find your front door standing wide open. Inside is your next door neighbor looking dumbstruck. Your television is missing. You ask your neighbor what happened. He explains that he saw an angel descend from on high and enter your home through the front door. When he confronted said angel it explained to him that your television was much needed in heaven, after which he left your home television in tow.

Q: What is the most likely explanation of what happened?

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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17-10-2012, 04:16 PM
RE: Evidence for the resurrection of Jesus...ENJOY!
This just shows the power of Craig's presentations. I can just hear him:

"You MUST be able to explain the empty tomb. If you cannot, then you MUST accept the resurrection. The gospels say... you MUST."

Must, must, must, must.

Everyone runs out of the presentation all excited. Then reality rears it's ugly head... you MUST provide ample proof for the resurrection. And it doesn't exist. Not even close.

I can't imagine the buyer's remorse on this one.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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17-10-2012, 04:26 PM
RE: Evidence for the resurrection of Jesus...ENJOY!
(17-10-2012 02:41 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  To start off, I will provide a list of what is generally accepted as historical facts
"Generally accepted" doesn't include me. What are your sources for this claim? The Bible is not a valid historical source, so unless you have other sources, this discussion ended before it ever began.

Furthermore, before we could talk about the resurrection, we would need to talk about the crucifixion. In the context of Christianity where mankind needed to be saved from original sin and from being permanently barred from entering heaven, the crucifixion of God makes absolutely no sense as the means of doing so. If all the "doing" was to be up to God, why wouldn't he just do so without all the suffering? It seems to me, since mankind supposedly screwed up, then mankind should carry the burden of doing whatever it takes to be saved. If your child misbehaves, do you punish yourself so they will no longer suffer the consequences of their misbehavior? No, it makes no sense. You punish them so they will learn or you make them do something to make up for their misbehavior (pay for a broken object, clean up a mess, or whatever). The concept of God doing all of this for us, especially in such an abhorrent manner, makes no sense at all and would logically accomplish nothing. Or, at least, if God was the only one who could even possibly save us, then what purpose would the crucifixion serve? It would just be an unnecessary manner of doing something that an omnipotent god could easily do some other way.

And, if that doesn't makes sense, then the resurrection - even the possibility of it - has no meaning.

Finally, since the resurrection was supposed to be the single biggest and most important act of Jesus, why did he do so in a manner that resulted in our debating now whether it happened at all? Why didn't he appear at least to everyone locally available at that time after his resurrection instead of disappearing mysteriously from the tomb and appearing only to a mere 500-600 people?

Nonsense.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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17-10-2012, 04:27 PM (This post was last modified: 17-10-2012 04:31 PM by Aseptic Skeptic.)
RE: Evidence for the resurrection of Jesus...ENJOY!
(17-10-2012 04:04 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Scene:

You arrive at home to find your front door standing wide open. Inside is your next door neighbor looking dumbstruck. Your television is missing. You ask your neighbor what happened. He explains that he saw an angel descend from on high and enter your home through the front door. When he confronted said angel it explained to him that your television was much needed in heaven, after which he left your home television in tow.

Q: What is the most likely explanation of what happened?

Oooh, I know.

A chimpanzee broke out of the zoo, stole a sexy Angel costume from Frederick's of Hollywood, drugged your neighbor with a tranq dart loaded with opium, stole your TV, dismantled it, covered it in molasses, and then fed it to mole people who live under your neighborhood sewers.

Did I get it right?

What if three people confirm that this is what happened, would it be right then?

Pretty please?

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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17-10-2012, 04:30 PM
RE: Evidence for the resurrection of Jesus...ENJOY!
(17-10-2012 04:16 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  This just shows the power of Craig's presentations. I can just hear him:

"You MUST be able to explain the empty tomb. If you cannot, then you MUST accept the resurrection. The gospels say... you MUST."

Must, must, must, must.

Everyone runs out of the presentation all excited. Then reality rears it's ugly head... you MUST provide ample proof for the resurrection. And it doesn't exist. Not even close.

I can't imagine the buyer's remorse on this one.

You almost got it right, except you forgot that WLC was literally preaching to the choir, so reality will never rear its ugly head. Not like that.

So to fix:

Everyone runs out of the presentation all excited. Then they live happily ever after in Never Never Land, joyous that Dr. Craig had confirmed their bias and reaffirmed their convictions.

They can't imagine ever having any buyer's remorse on this one.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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17-10-2012, 04:33 PM
RE: Evidence for the resurrection of Jesus...ENJOY!
(17-10-2012 04:27 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  
(17-10-2012 04:04 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Scene:

You arrive at home to find your front door standing wide open. Inside is your next door neighbor looking dumbstruck. Your television is missing. You ask your neighbor what happened. He explains that he saw an angel descend from on high and enter your home through the front door. When he confronted said angel it explained to him that your television was much needed in heaven, after which he left your home television in tow.

Q: What is the most likely explanation of what happened?

Oooh, I know.

A chimpanzee broke out of the zoo, stole a sexy Angel costume from Frederick's of Hollywood, drugged your neighbor with a tranq dart loaded with opium, stole your TV, dismantled it, covered it in molasses, and then fed it to mole people who live under your neighborhood sewers.

Did I get it right?

What if three people confirm that this is what happened, would it be right then?

Pretty please?

Excellent work, AS! If not for the tree people, your deductions would have been logically unsound. Good catch. Thumbsup

EDIT: On a side note, I officially need new glasses.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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17-10-2012, 04:34 PM
RE: Evidence for the resurrection of Jesus...ENJOY!
(17-10-2012 02:41 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  To start off, I will provide a list of what is generally accepted as historical facts.

1) Jesus died via crucifixion.
2) Jesus was buried in a tomb.
3) A few days later Jesus’ tomb was discovered empty by his women followers.
4) Disciples had experiences they believed to be true and actual appearance of the risen Jesus. (including accounts from Paul of Jesus appearing before 500 additional people)
#1. How did you determine that these four points are generally accepted as historical facts? 'Got any polls, statistics, etc.?
#2. Do you have extrabiblical sources for all four points which can be used to establish them as historical facts?

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17-10-2012, 04:39 PM
Evidence for the resurrection of Jesus...ENJOY!
(17-10-2012 04:04 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Scene:

You arrive at home to find your front door standing wide open. Inside is your next door neighbor looking dumbstruck. Your television is missing. You ask your neighbor what happened. He explains that he saw an angel descend from on high and enter your home through the front door. When he confronted said angel it explained to him that your television was much needed in heaven, after which he left your home television in tow.

Q: What is the most likely explanation of what happened?

A guy named Angel came and took all your stuff? Consider

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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17-10-2012, 05:06 PM
RE: Evidence for the resurrection of Jesus...ENJOY!
(17-10-2012 03:56 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The earliest Jewish disciples did NOT believe he was resurrected, including Thomas, (the doubter). Therefore this was false. In fact the Road to Emmaus event in Acts PROVES that they did NOT recognize what they saw, and whatever it was, was NOT a physical "body". The fact that he went through walls means whatever it was, it could NOT have been a real physical body, as NO "physical body" ever passes through walls.

I think the early Jewish disiples have done, after jesus died, what i have done, after my father died last year, i get drunk.
And then i have seeing things, you people would not belief!

Coming back to the topic, if you search for evidence for the life and death of jesus, you have to look in the documents of the roman's.
They were the germans of that timeframe, you know?
They were very accurate with that stuff.
You can find records of any matter of roman life and culture.
They had an advanced archive-system, they note the prieces of slaves, the yearly crobs, waterstands in rivers and all kind of stuff.
I wonder that they didn't notice a trial and the execution of a man, who dies nailed to a stick. After he died, a courtain in the palace of the Roman governor Pontius Pilate ripped apart in pieces, a storm rises and death people walking on the streets on Jerusalem.
And nothing was mentioned in a single file?
That makes no sence to me.

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is an Olympic discipline.
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17-10-2012, 05:11 PM
RE: Evidence for the resurrection of Jesus...ENJOY!
(17-10-2012 04:39 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(17-10-2012 04:04 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Scene:

You arrive at home to find your front door standing wide open. Inside is your next door neighbor looking dumbstruck. Your television is missing. You ask your neighbor what happened. He explains that he saw an angel descend from on high and enter your home through the front door. When he confronted said angel it explained to him that your television was much needed in heaven, after which he left your home television in tow.

Q: What is the most likely explanation of what happened?

A guy named Angel came and took all your stuff? Consider

AS got it right, obviously through sound deductive reasoning and meticulous research. Your answer, sir, is ridiculous.

How would you know it was a guy? All your stuff wasn't taken, only the TV. These points are important!

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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