Evidence of God
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
25-12-2014, 08:40 PM
RE: Evidence of God
Evidence? I'll settle for a Christian giving a direct answer to even a single tough question.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Fodder_From_The_Truth's post
25-12-2014, 08:52 PM
RE: Evidence of God
(25-12-2014 04:45 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  
(06-12-2014 03:53 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  I wonder why a real man of the cloth never comes to the forum besides the fact that we tend to be a rebellious bunch. I would think that if you really believed in your own message this would be a perfect place to spread the word. Yet not one Catholic Priest, one Babtist preacher, one Mormon Elder, one Muslim Imam has graced us with their presence.

That's easy, because you're not actually interested in the topic, but just in the experience of playing the fantasy role of the Great Debunker.

If you were sincerely interested in the topic, you would be seeking such folks out instead of contenting yourself with complaining about why they don't come to you. Catholic Priests, Baptist preachers, Mormon Elders, and Muslim Imams are likely all over the net in great abundance.

I'm not claiming you should be sincerely interested in the topics addressed by religion, that would be up to you.

I'm claiming it might be clear minded to know whether you are actually interested or not. If you're not actually interested in religion (not the same as wanting to join one) you'll never be a good debunker of religion.

You talk like if you knew anything about me. Drinking Beverage

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-12-2014, 09:04 PM
RE: Evidence of God
(25-12-2014 03:08 PM)aPriest Wrote:  I am a soul. ...


You want proof, but at the same time reject it when I tell you it is found in Holy Scripture..

I am Batman. You want proof, but at the same time reject it when I tell you it is found in my comic books.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes RobbyPants's post
25-12-2014, 09:58 PM
RE: Evidence of God
(25-12-2014 03:08 PM)aPriest Wrote:  I am a soul. ...


You want proof, but at the same time reject it when I tell you it is found in Holy Scripture..

You say that Zeus doesn't exist, but at the same time you reject it when I tell you it is found in an ancient book called The Iliad.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes WindyCityJazz's post
25-12-2014, 11:39 PM
RE: Evidence of God
(25-12-2014 06:36 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  As example, many or most posters on atheist forums don't really have a sincere interest in the god inquiry (which is not the same as being religious), they just want to find some theists they can do the debunker dance on. So anything you give them gets turned in to that, a debunker dance.

Really? You would go to an atheist forum to find theists?

With all of the rest of the internet to chose from there are much better venues to "find some theists they can do the debunker dance on" than waiting around here for the few that trickle through.

Perhaps you should check your assumptions.

Incidentally, what is the name of this "Nya-Nya-You're-Wrong" two-step you're doing?

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Paleophyte's post
26-12-2014, 02:40 AM (This post was last modified: 26-12-2014 04:12 AM by gofish!.)
RE: Evidence of God
(25-12-2014 06:36 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  
(25-12-2014 06:21 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  It's not evidence if you can't show it to others and let them examine it.
As example, many or most posters on atheist forums don't really have a sincere interest in the god inquiry (which is not the same as being religious), they just want to find some theists they can do the debunker dance on. So anything you give them gets turned in to that, a debunker dance.

If I type "the sky is blue" within 13 seconds somebody will start posting "You're so wrong, your logic sucks, we know everything already, there's nothing you can teach us..." etc etc etc. It's like an automated rejection mechanism.

The speed of response is more often than not a measure of the genuine engagement many here appear to have with this subject. Indeed my own position on theism is a result of long personal research.

The negativity is more often than not simply a response to a logically unsupportable claim. Say "the sky is blue" and you will get broad agreement. Of course, agreement doesn't stir the mind as much as disagreement, so is less noticeable.

It is human for you to feel frustration at the consistency of rejection of theist thinking, but if you take yourself and your feelings out of the conversation and think of this as an intellectual challenge, you may enjoy it more.

Some people say it is brave to have faith: I hypothesise that the opposite is true.

So, be brave.

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-12-2014, 05:30 AM
RE: Evidence of God
(06-12-2014 06:52 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  APRIEST

Quote:I am aPriest and I come in the name of the Lord.

Priest of which delusion, and which god? Psalms 82.1 (KJV) God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

Quote:Much in the manner the Lord sent Jonah to Nineveh She led me here to this forum concerned with the spiritual health of so many young intelligent people claiming to be atheists and rejecting religion. Has no one ever told you that God has nothing to do with religion?

You wouldn’t know of god if it wasn’t for religion, you see man created god, not the other way around.

Quote:There is a great separation from the Word of God contained in Holy Scriptures and religion. If you have not been wondering for 40 years in the wilderness deep in study of the Torah, the Tanakh, the Holy Qur’an, Buddhist Scripture, Hindu Scripture, the Gospels of John and Matthew, the Books of Abraham and Moses, the Gospel of James who is the Jewish Rabi keeper of the original scrolls written by Matthew and John, aware of True Life in God, the Book of Mormon, the Great Gospel of John and other writings of God by the Egyptians, Incas, Mayas, Native Americans and others, then you may be depriving yourself of God as a result of your contempt of religion, but the Lord has infinite Patience and She has sent me with this simple message granting parole to reconsider your foolishness: “Hear this, all you peoples; give ear, all inhabitants of the world, men of all estates, rich and poor alike. My mouth utters wisdom, my speech is full of insight.”

Interesting…she huh? SO what is your flavor of delusion? Interesting isn’t it over 4500 different religions and hundreds of gods, yet each faction swears theres is the ONE....sounds like maybe jewish.

Quote:Evidence of God is available to be discovered by the diligent investigator with the desire to look for it.

Provide one please.

Quote:Follow the Path of the Warrior and She will grant you access to the Tree of Knowledge. The Lord said the Kingdom of God must be taken by force. So what does this mean? Do you only criticize religion or do you understand Holy Scripture? Consider this: Who came first, Adam or Moses?

Neither, both are fabrications….you haven’t spent much time studying mythology if you don’t know that basic fact…how very…ineducable…. yet hubris of you.

Quote:The answer to this simple question will reveal to you if you have any comprehension at all of the Creation Metaphor contained in the Torah.


ahhhh the torah, ol school delusion, nice

Quote:What kind of silly god would take six days to create this small apparently insignificant planet and then need a day of rest when a True God may do it in one big bang and continue to do so at infinitum?

I agree; the great god spongebob can do it in only 12 hours….

Quote:Do you know this period of creation is finite? There is an edge to this infinite universe! Do you understand the Covenant with Abraham?

Wow, have you either NOT taken your meds today, or perhaps too many at once…do you even hear yourself?

Quote:What is circumcision? Certainly not the physical mutilation of the body, but that is the physical manifestation. What is the reason for the circumcision metaphor covenant found in the Book of Abraham?

Who wrote Abraham…if you say Abraham, you lose the game…You do realize there is ZERO evidence that moses, Abraham, or even jesus ever existed right? Come now my hubris anthropocentric ineducable tyro priest, do a little research.

Quote:Do you understand that Cain is all material and Abel is all spiritual?

Do you understand neither ever existed either?

Quote:Materialism has murdered the spiritual connection with God.

Spongebob is unhappy because we keep throwing away sponges

Quote:Consider this during the season of the birth of the Jewish Messiah when all the capitalists are looking to make a profit.

You don’t even know the dates are wrong do you…lol…and that xmas is based off of pagan ceremonies…truly sad

Quote:Do not even consider US Politics when you may not understand that God is Pro-Choice and Jesus is a Democrat, but try telling this to those right wing Christians.

Wow, god is pro choice? Did he choose to give millions cancer? Design a big ball of fire in the sky that bombards his creations with cancer causing rays as well?...and jesus is a democrat? Isn't it odd he/she stood idly by with his/her thumb buried in his/her own ass while 14 million jews were marched into the ovens? Answer prayers much? Apparently not. BY the way, jesus the Christ, son of god didn’t exist, and the one who thought he was the messiah, was a false messiah, of course there is no such thing as a messiah so kind of a moot point..

The Bible claims that Jesus made the following comment:

Matthew 16:28
“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

Jesus also advised against going to court over someone who steals something and also told people not to store up stocks or reserves for the future. Clearly, he thought the end was very near.

Likewise, Paul advised followers not to marry and that the end time was near. In this scripture he obviously believes that some of the people he is talking to will still be alive at the second coming.

I Thessalonians 4: 16-18

“For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.”

The obvious fact is that the second coming was not forthcoming at that time, or even close to being near. The 2000-year delay is a strong piece of evidence that Christianity is a failed religion.

The following quote from Stephen L. Harris, Professor Emeritus of Humanities and Religious Studies at California State University- Sacramento, completes this point with a devastating argument. Remember that Jesus was a Jew who had no intention to deviate from the Hebrew scriptures:

“Jesus did not accomplish what Israel’s prophets said the Messiah was commissioned to do: He did not deliver the covenant people from their Gentile enemies, reassemble those scattered in the Diaspora, restore the Davidic kingdom, or establish universal peace (cf.Isa. 9:6–7; 11:7–12:16, etc.). Instead of freeing Jews from oppressors and thereby fulfilling God’s ancient promises—for land, nationhood, kingship, and blessing—Jesus died a “shameful” death, defeated by the very political powers the Messiah was prophesied to overcome. Indeed, the Hebrew prophets did not foresee that Israel’s savior would be executed as a common criminal by Gentiles, making Jesus’ crucifixion a “stumbling block” to scripturally literate Jews. (1 Cor.1:23)”

Jesus’ immediate followers, mostly his 12 disciples, probably did not immediately identify this failure, because after Jesus’ body was likely stolen and concealed, a rumor spread that Jesus had been resurrected from the dead. A sense of optimism overcame their grief about his execution and renewed some hope that he was a true messiah. If they had known then that there was to be no return in the near or long-term future, they likely would have abandoned any further activity. Despite this resurgence in their faith, they never agreed with Paul’s concept of Jesus as being divine. Anything written in the Bible to suggest that they did is probably a result of later editing by some of Paul’s followers. Such a belief would have been an exceptional departure from the Jewish faith.


Quote:Even if you accept the Holy Bible as the Word of God you should know that it is not the last word from God and what of this “She” I mention? She is the Jewish Feminine God, Who is Binah, Elohim, God. Who is the Divine Mother known to Christians as the Holy Spirit and to the Jews as Binah, the third Sefirot in the Triad God Keter, Hokhmah, Binah and to Christians as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. What is the Virgin Mary corresponding to Shekhinah, the Gateway to the Divine. She is more than the mother of Jesus and here a warning! The Lord said: “All manner of sin may be forgiven, but sin against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven”

Ahhh been awhile since I had a jewish priest to educate….tell me oh wise one, lets see how much you know…do you realize the EXODUS never happened?

Quote:So where does it say this? In the same place the Lord said: “I came into the world through my mother and I will return through my mother to the Jewish nation who are the keepers of the seal and have the birthright to this teaching and may claim ownership at any time.”

Goldilocks 3:14 Thou shalt not sleep in other peoples beds

Quote:David dedicates the Psalms to Her and She is the one Solomon speaks of in Proverbs.

Yeah? And you know this how? You claim to have a lot of insight to god, and their politics lol….perhaps you have a special red phone beside your bed in your padded room….

Quote:She has a place in many of the world’s religions, but nevertheless rejected by millions of Christians.

Tsk tsk, which is TERRIBLE…another magical invisible god that people don’t believe in…tragic…truly..

Quote:There are many who will reject this immediately and already are busy sharpening their arrows so to those who can’t swallow religion or Holy Scripture I will offer a different path and invite you to read the Teachings of Don Juan, a Yaqui way of Knowledge by Carlos Castaneda and perhaps She will guide you to learn how to stop the world. I have provided so much in this post to fill years of diligent research for any so called atheist and any disciple who rejects the Temple. Do you understand any of this?

You do realize my hubris friend that all religion is false, it is all fabricated, and only the unintelligent, uneducated, gullible, coerced, and elderly subscribe to it…which one are you?

You do realize that if you remove all of the pseudepigrapha, interpolations, parables and allegorical writings from holy books you wouldn’t have enough left over to put together a pamphlet right?

You do know the Moses didn’t exist, and that the OT was fabricated by Judaen priests right? Here let me give you just a crumb of knowledge..

You see, we know that the Judean priests cooked up/assembled Genesis for political reasons in Babylon as a text for reference for the return, to provide a national story and a legal system for a basis for the return. They did it around 575-550 BCE, in order to promote political unity during a crisis caused by the exilic experience in Babylon, after having written the book of Job, (as an attempted "spiritual" response to the question of suffering). While the "Persian Imperative" is now discounted by scholars, it was probably on the right track in some ways, i.e. the unification of the warring priestly class with the Yahwist land owners into a unified, post exile state. In any case in the Books of Ezra and Nehemiah it describes the Return from Babylon, with Ezra carrying two things, ... the letter from Artaxerxes giving him and the King the power to rule in his name, and the Torah of Moses --- the first time in human history what is now the beginnings of "The Bible" (The Scroll of Moses), are ever mentioned.

http://uzh.academia.edu/KonradSchmid/Pap...ent_Debate

Regardless of whether or not this was the actual impetus, it was a politically motivated document, aimed at cohesion and unification in a "created national story", today called "PR".

http://www.pphf.hu/biblikum/cikkek/kanoniz.pdf
http://www.jhsonline.org/cocoon/JHS/r354.html
http://ejournals.library.ualberta.ca/ind.../7322/6023
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_R._Davies (The Complete World of the Dead Sea Scrolls)

Let me know if you need more education in your faith….

Faith - the belief in something without evidence.

Delusion: an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder. A belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.

Religion - The embracement of delusion.


[Image: 2ahfzbm.jpg]

Good post. I admire your work, and your patience
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Mark Fulton's post
26-12-2014, 07:44 AM (This post was last modified: 26-12-2014 07:48 AM by Ace.)
RE: Evidence of God
(25-12-2014 09:04 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(25-12-2014 03:08 PM)aPriest Wrote:  I am a soul. ...


You want proof, but at the same time reject it when I tell you it is found in Holy Scripture..

I am Batman. You want proof, but at the same time reject it when I tell you it is found in my comic books.

somewhat off topic
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/19/19444154...dc8d3b.jpg
http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/1fd/bb3/62c...3511ab.jpg
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-12-2014, 08:50 AM
RE: Evidence of God
Quote:Baba Bozo
you're not actually interested in the topic, but just in the experience of playing the fantasy role of the Great Debunker. If you were sincerely interested in the topic, you would be seeking such folks out instead of contenting yourself with complaining about why they don't come to you. Catholic Priests, Baptist preachers, Mormon Elders, and Muslim Imams are likely all over the net in great abundance.

Quote:Goodwithoutgod
You always make broad sweeping assertions about a widely diverse group of people? I debate daily, online and offline, I have participated in hundreds of debates. Some short, some very long, some with ineducable fundies who can’t open their eyes or articulate a thought, and some with very educated, hubris and intelligent ministers who can swing the bible stick and speak philosophy fluently. Not to brag, I have never been beaten. Not because I am some kind of super intellectual, but because I am an Ex-Xtian, son of a minister, who grew up in the church, got a degree in religious studies with specialization in Christianity..and have subsequently studied it for over 30 years AND most importantly, I have knowledge and evidence on my side. They are always at a distinct disadvantage, they believe in a discreditable fairy tale. However, I truly enjoy learning different perspectives, and enjoy long thought provoking intelligent discourses with people who have different perspectives and worldviews…it is how we all learn, more about the world, and about each other. Sadly the ones we get here tend to be the “I am the second coming of Christ” or “God sent me to give you all a stern warning” and those get the backhand they so richly deserve.

Quote:Baba Bozo
I'm not claiming you should be sincerely interested in the topics addressed by religion, that would be up to you.

Quote:Goodwithoutgod
I am sincerely interested in why people can purport to believe such disproven, fabricated BS that can be traced to its creation, dissemination and modification. Now I always freely admit that in this stage in the game, my biggest challenge is to truly contemplate new information with an open mind. 1) because no new information comes along often, this tired old subject has been beaten to death for a millennium, but 2) occasionally you come across a fresh perspective, or a poised question that gives you pause.

Quote:Baba Bozo
I'm claiming it might be clear minded to know whether you are actually interested or not. If you're not actually interested in religion (not the same as wanting to join one) you'll never be a good debunker of religion.

Quote:Goodwithoutgod
I disagree. I have truly no interest in religion outside of the study of it, and the desire to counter the misinformation, fiction, forgery and fantasy that it tries to sell…and because I know it so well from the inside out, I would posit I am a good debunker…if I may toot my little horn just a tad. *honk* Flex

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like goodwithoutgod's post
26-12-2014, 09:07 AM
RE: Evidence of God
The question on consciousness:
The Brain is a material part of the body and it is used by the Soul to make the body function while the soul occupies the body. Once the soul is out of the body the brain does not have conscious thought because the soul has no need of the brain to be aware and experience knowledge in the spiritual existence. When a body is in coma and being assisted by artificial means to keep it alive as we see in many hospitals, the fact is the natural process of death is being interfered with and the soul is prevented from detaching. The term “brain dead” is a clear example of this in showing the soul out of the brain, but not detached from the body. As it departs the soul leaves the body and finally detaches at the solar plexus and the physical manifestation of this is the heart stops.

This concept of separating consciousness from awareness and knowledge may be experienced by the practice called Stop the World outlined in the book The Teachings of Don Juan a Yaqui Way of Knowledge previously mentioned in my first post. The process calls for you to consciously stop the dialogue in the brain. I mean the constant chatter of useless conversation going on in the brain almost all of the time. Once stopped, the brain no longer interferes with the soul’s ability to communicate with the spiritual realm and true awareness of existence and knowledge is experienced.

How much of this is retained in the brain once the dialogue resumes will depend entirely on your abilities to succeed in clearing your mind. In today’s jargon this may be explained as a computer using a particular operating system attempting to read a file created with a different operating system. The task is almost impossible and by stopping all thought in the brain you will be able to create the needed interface between the conscious material world and the spiritual world.

To stop all thought in the brain is at the core of the spiritual experience and available to all human beings whenever they choose to do so and any thinking atheist can stop thinking. The risk of course is that you will reject this too and associate this totally human ability to Eastern religion and what is called Transcendental Meditation, but once again the choice is yours to deny what you can prove to yourself in your own mind or take advantage of the key I’m placing in front of you for the taking.

If you want proof of the existence of God use this key I’m showing you and unlock the door to the spiritual experience because I’m telling you that you too can Stop the World.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: