Evil USA perspective.
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10-04-2015, 10:27 AM
RE: Evil USA perspective.
(10-04-2015 10:24 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(10-04-2015 10:20 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  You say it's ignorant then agree that it has responsibility.

I say it is ignorant that you think the US has a responsibility because it's the most militarily powerful country on Earth (even though that's very debatable. "Classical" warfare maybe but that's not the wars of today.).

I am saying it has a responsibility because it caused the problem to begin with. Nothing to do with its military strength.

Ah, I see. I didn't mean just militarily. Its economic influence is probably just as powerful. It's a mixture of things, and, as you rightly say, the US were responsible for a lot of bad things like installation of dictators. Though there is an argument for them doing this on a number of fronts such as "Communism vs Capitalism" is there not?

I think the US isn't a morally superior nation, but I don't think it's right for people to keep singling it out as evil.

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10-04-2015, 10:27 AM
RE: Evil USA perspective.
(10-04-2015 10:19 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  
(10-04-2015 10:14 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I would think part of the problem which causes it to justifiably rise is proclamations like saying the US is the most powerful thus most responsible nation on Earth.

Has it not been for the past 50 years? Most powerful because of relations and involvement in other countries.

For example the Saddam issue. US had more than the capabilities needed to remove him, he was evil, slaughtering his own people. Standing by and letting him do so = evil. Removing him = risk can result in worsening of affairs.

Ideas of what makes one powerful or responsible are loose and visible through many lenses.

Viewing things in this black/white scope isn't likely helpful to this dilemma. The US designating ideas like Axis of Evil or having politicians talking about views in concepts of "good guys" vs "bad Guys" is not beneficial to open ranges of perspectives.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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10-04-2015, 10:31 AM
RE: Evil USA perspective.
(10-04-2015 10:27 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(10-04-2015 10:19 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  Has it not been for the past 50 years? Most powerful because of relations and involvement in other countries.

For example the Saddam issue. US had more than the capabilities needed to remove him, he was evil, slaughtering his own people. Standing by and letting him do so = evil. Removing him = risk can result in worsening of affairs.

Ideas of what makes one powerful or responsible are loose and visible through many lenses.

Viewing things in this black/white scope isn't likely helpful to this dilemma. The US designating ideas like Axis of Evil or having politicians talking about views in concepts of "good guys" vs "bad Guys" is not beneficial to open ranges of perspectives.

Well I agree with that, but still think it has been the most powerful for the past 50 years.

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10-04-2015, 11:55 AM
RE: Evil USA perspective.
Personally I don't hate America or Americans but from my experience non-America westerns hate the USA for these reasons (the list is not inclusive of every reason):
- For being the world police, invading places with ambiguous reasons and massacring civilians, for making it a goal to literally bring "democracy" and "freedom" to other countries, etc - Basically putting your nose where it doesn't belong - This does not mean other countries do not do it (example - Russia) but no one loves Russia anyway
- Because your healthcare system is inhumane even if it's for the free market
- Because of your gun laws and school massacres
- Because you are presumptuous enough to call yourselves the most powerful country in the world when China is already bigger and Russia will someday rise higher again (not to mention other growing potencies like India, Brazil, etc)
- American bad patriotism (America is the best country in the world, land of the free, etc, the rest of the western world revolves around us and is worse)
- Because some Americans are truly ignorant and annoying - You can find youtube videos and polls on this (reptilians, belief in creationism, etc)
- A lot of people hate the spying on citizens, torture and other methods and laws like the one that allows the president to order the arrest of anyone without any rights etc
- Because things happen in America that don't happen in the rest of the world - No one in Europe asks politicians if they believe there should be no minimum wage, or if there creationism is true, or if people should be allowed to not treat gay people's kids, etc
- Related to healthcare - Because if you see the HDI and other indexes on happiness, freedom of press and so on you'll see that America is not that high as it thinks it is.

I don't dislike America, in fact I'd like to visit some States out of curiosity - Many people I talk with on the internet are Americans. I believe the US needs to grow a lot as a country (the healthcare reform is a start) and it's people need to educate themselves as well (not all, I know) - I feel that the fact America has only ever known liberalism and never feudalism, monarchy, fascism and so on has given you a very narrow view on how to run society (i.e. freedom freedom freedom) - No one wants absolutism or fascism back, but all bad systems give us something to learn from - I also think the reason people hate Americans is because they probably see more bad things done by them on the news than good ones.

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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10-04-2015, 12:05 PM
RE: Evil USA perspective.
(10-04-2015 11:55 AM)Blackout Wrote:  - Because your healthcare system is inhumane even if it's for the free market
- Because of your gun laws and school massacres
- Because you are presumptuous enough to call yourselves the most powerful country in the world when China is already bigger and Russia will someday rise higher again (not to mention other growing potencies like India, Brazil, etc)
- American bad patriotism (America is the best country in the world, land of the free, etc, the rest of the western world revolves around us and is worse)

(10-04-2015 11:55 AM)Blackout Wrote:  - Because some Americans are truly ignorant and annoying - You can find youtube videos and polls on this (reptilians, belief in creationism, etc)
- A lot of people hate the spying on citizens, torture and other methods and laws like the one that allows the president to order the arrest of anyone without any rights etc
- Because things happen in America that don't happen in the rest of the world - No one in Europe asks politicians if they believe there should be no minimum wage, or if there creationism is true, or if people should be allowed to not treat gay people's kids, etc
- Related to healthcare - Because if you see the HDI and other indexes on happiness, freedom of press and so on you'll see that America is not that high as it thinks it is.

Let us add the lies. Like for years america was like "we don't torture people" then they go"we have torturing people this whole time, but we are america so it is justice and for freedom".

These are the reasons even americans hate america.

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10-04-2015, 12:05 PM
RE: Evil USA perspective.
I think that the best way to think of it is the best of a bad situation or the lesser of two evils. America had done bad stuff, but it's still a better country than say...North Korea. America has freedom of speech, freedom of religion, a secular government, a constitution, free media. They may do bad things from time to time, but I would rather have America rule the world than Russia or Iraq or North Korea or Saudia Arabia.
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10-04-2015, 12:06 PM
RE: Evil USA perspective.
You could find reasons to hate and love any country. The USA get hate as much as they get love. It's pretty balanced if you ask me.

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10-04-2015, 12:14 PM
RE: Evil USA perspective.
(10-04-2015 10:19 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  For example the Saddam issue. US had more than the capabilities needed to remove him, he was evil, slaughtering his own people. Standing by and letting him do so = evil. Removing him = risk can result in worsening of affairs.

In which case they probably shouldn't have given him the tools to do so.

Funny, that.

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10-04-2015, 12:17 PM
RE: Evil USA perspective.
(10-04-2015 10:19 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  
(10-04-2015 10:14 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I would think part of the problem which causes it to justifiably rise is proclamations like saying the US is the most powerful thus most responsible nation on Earth.

Has it not been for the past 50 years? Most powerful because of relations and involvement in other countries.

For example the Saddam issue. US had more than the capabilities needed to remove him, he was evil, slaughtering his own people. Standing by and letting him do so = evil. Removing him = risk can result in worsening of affairs.

You haven't really brushed up on your history have you? But you seem to forget that it was the US that gave him those weapons in the first place. I live in the US and I am deeply saddened by some of the decisions our former presidents have done in the past. Ronald Reagan was primarily responsible for handing over weapons to Saddam in the 80's.

Then - we start wars with countries that didn't have a damn thing to do with anything, in the first place. Think Iraq.
Then and only after thousands of people were killed after a war WE started, comes the admittance from our former elected leaders that there never were any WMD (Weapons of Mass Destruction) found.

Let's not discuss Watergate.
Or the Bengazi attacks.
Hillary will NEVER get my vote. That woman should stay OUT of office.

We piss off our own citizens by offering aid to other countries while totally ignoring the cries of our own. Think Hurricane Katrina.

We will happily accept illegal aliens by offering them drivers licenses, money, food stamps, health care and housing by using tax money provided by the very same Natural born Citizens and Legal Residents that the US refuses to give those same benefits to without some sort of proof that they have fallen upon hard times.

Our government does not take care of their homeless, rather it will spend $900 on a new toilet for the White House. If it wasn't for the acts of kindness of the Citizens of this country, the homeless wouldn't be taken care of at all.

We loan billions to other countries yet never demand repayment, yet this country will happily foreclose on a house it sold to it's own citizens. Think USDA's 502 home loan program. I was a victim and lost my house in 2012.

I see no other country offering the US and her citizens any sort of "aid".

Our politicians constantly violate the constitution. One such fine example is Obamacare. Citizens are not, according to the US Constitution, supposed to be forced to purchase anything they don't want. Obamacare neatly steps around this by imposing a "tax" on citizens who refuse to purchase healthcare.

Ahh yes... our "powerful" and "most responsible" country is a joke. The country's judicial system is corrupt and your vote for elected officials is laughable. Corporations who pay lobbyists, who in turn pay off politicians, easily sway votes in their favor. Try reading about Fracking sometime.

If I had the money to move out of this lousy country and take my children with me, we would be gone in an instant. Amsterdam comes to mind. At least I could smoke there without worrying about getting arrested and put in jail on a minor pot possession. Pot - you know... that NATURAL plant that the US has deemed illegal. Only within the last several years have some states slowly started changing their laws about it, but even then, it's still restrictive.

The US.. the all powerful nation of people who came here and quickly pushed out the indigent peoples of this land ruthlessly and with hate. Yup. What a great country we live in. NoNoNo

By the way - I got a 98% on my Citizenship test in high school. In 1989.
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10-04-2015, 12:17 PM
RE: Evil USA perspective.
(10-04-2015 10:27 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  I think the US isn't a morally superior nation, but I don't think it's right for people to keep singling it out as evil.

People don't single it out as evil; they single it out as having the most direct impact on their lives and the lives of others. And that's a fairly undeniable observation.

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