Evolution
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26-04-2013, 05:48 PM
RE: Evolution
(26-04-2013 05:34 PM)ChuckTesta Wrote:  
(26-04-2013 05:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  He made the claim - he has the burden of proof. That's the way it works.

You can just say "Bullshit until you show me your evidence."

Where are you in your formal educational journey?

I was home schooled my whole life...yeah yeah yeah get it out I'm not the stereo typical shut in Home schooled kid as a kid I was never interested in school I absolutely hated it more then I hated going to church and that's saying something at this time I don't have a lot of education don't get me wrong my parents taught me many things but I did not listen I would tune out and have only recently had a real interest in learning and I'm loving it.


OK, I have a summer reading assignment for you.

Two books, both entertaining, both introductory to scientific thinking.
I really can't sing the praises of these two books highly enough.

The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark, Carl Sagan

A Short History of Nearly Everything, Bill Bryson (get the Special Illustrated Edition)

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-04-2013, 05:58 PM
RE: Evolution
(26-04-2013 05:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-04-2013 05:34 PM)ChuckTesta Wrote:  I was home schooled my whole life...yeah yeah yeah get it out I'm not the stereo typical shut in Home schooled kid as a kid I was never interested in school I absolutely hated it more then I hated going to church and that's saying something at this time I don't have a lot of education don't get me wrong my parents taught me many things but I did not listen I would tune out and have only recently had a real interest in learning and I'm loving it.


OK, I have a summer reading assignment for you.

Two books, both entertaining, both introductory to scientific thinking.
I really can't sing the praises of these two books highly enough.

The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark, Carl Sagan

A Short History of Nearly Everything, Bill Bryson (get the Special Illustrated Edition)
Thanks I'll look them up.

"Invisible pink unicorns" and "Screaming blue ants" Matt Slick
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26-04-2013, 06:04 PM
Evolution
Do cetaceans work as an example in any way? Or would they be rebutted similarly by theists?
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26-04-2013, 06:07 PM
RE: Evolution
(26-04-2013 05:35 PM)Foxcanine1 Wrote:  
(26-04-2013 05:06 PM)ChuckTesta Wrote:  Oh and he also claimed that their have been drawings found in caves in Peru I think of humans riding on dinosaurs...I had to laugh at this but what would you say to this? I have been looking for these drawing online but can't seem to find anything.

For the time being this is what I'll throw your way. You can look into it deeper since this source does have the potential of being biased, but it can be used for a start.

Interesting not sure if this is what hes talking about but he said he will send me the info today.

"Invisible pink unicorns" and "Screaming blue ants" Matt Slick
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26-04-2013, 06:19 PM
RE: Evolution
Do you play chess Chas? Just curious.

"Invisible pink unicorns" and "Screaming blue ants" Matt Slick
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26-04-2013, 06:26 PM
RE: Evolution
(26-04-2013 05:06 PM)ChuckTesta Wrote:  Oh and he also claimed that their have been drawings found in caves in Peru I think of humans riding on dinosaurs...I had to laugh at this but what would you say to this? I have been looking for these drawing online but can't seem to find anything.

Quick! The Aron Ra signal!



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26-04-2013, 06:45 PM
RE: Evolution
(26-04-2013 06:19 PM)ChuckTesta Wrote:  Do you play chess Chas? Just curious.

Yes, but I am not a knowledgeable player. I've never studied the game.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-04-2013, 07:19 PM
RE: Evolution
(26-04-2013 06:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-04-2013 06:19 PM)ChuckTesta Wrote:  Do you play chess Chas? Just curious.

Yes, but I am not a knowledgeable player. I've never studied the game.

Did you ever play on chessclan.com?

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26-04-2013, 07:56 PM
RE: Evolution
(26-04-2013 03:46 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Chuck.

KC confuses people because he doesn't fit neatly into their stereotypical view of Christians. Imagine that. An individual. That's crazy talk!

It's been said, but yeah, amphibians. Not only that, but mammals are direct descendents of amphibians.

Smack him with this:

THE PALEOZOIC ERA: 542 - 251 MA

THE CAMBRIAN PERIOD: 542 – 488.3 MA
Phylum Chordata evolves spinal chord.
Three subphyla develop

Phylum Chordata
-Subphylum Urochordata
-Subphylum Cephalochordata
-Subphylum Vertebrata (spinal chords are housed in bone vertebral column)

THE ORDOVICIAN PERIOD: 488.3 – 460.9 MA
Kingdom Plantae transitions to land

THE SILURIAN PERIOD: 460.9 - 416 MA
The first land animals. Likely Phylum Arthropoda.

THE DEVONIAN PERIOD: 416 – 359.2 MA
The first tetrapods evolve
Tetrapods have four limbs

Subphylum Vertebrata
-Superclass Tetrapoda

THE CARBONIFEROUS MISSISSIPPIAN PERIOD: 359.2 – 318.1 MA
The first vertebrate tetrapods transition to land.

Class Amphibia (The amphibians)

THE CARBONIFEROUS PENNSYLVANIAN PERIOD: 359.2 – 299 MA
Amphibians proliferate on land.
Organisms evolve from amphibians that produce amniotic eggs

Series Amniota
-Class Synapsids (reptiles with differentiated teeth and amniotic eggs)

THE PERMIAN PERIOD: 299 – 251 MA
The Permian extinction event occurs
An order of Class Synapsid survives the Permian extinction

Order Therapsida
-Suborder Cyondont

THE MESOZOIC ERA: 251 – 65.5 MA

Dinosaurs rule the Earth
New class evolves from Suborder Cyondont

Class Mammalia

THE JURASSIC PERIOD: 199.6 – 145.5 MA
Small mammals proliferate
Dinosaurs were a limiting factor

THE CRETACEOUS PERIOD: 145.5 – 65.5 MA
A subclass and two infraclasses of Class Mammalia appear

Subclass Theria
-Infraclass Marsupialia
-Infraclass Eutheria

Eutheria were placental mammals who gave birth to offspring without using shelled eggs
Eutherian fetuses gestate inside a womb

Infraclass Eutheria gives rise to Superorder Euarchontoglires

Six orders of Superorder Euarchontoglires develop

-Clade Gilres
---Order Rodentia
---Order Lagomorpha
-Clade Euarchonta
---Order Dermoptera
---Order Scandentia
---Order Plesiadapiformes
---Order Primate

Order primate are placenta tetrapodal mammals with fingers, fingernails, opposing thumbs, binocular vision and marked sexual dimorphism.
They are quadrupeds who can walk on two legs for short periods; bipedalism.

Cretaceous Extinction event occurs
Superorder Dinosauria dies off
With their limiting factor gone, mammals fill niches left empty by extinction of dinosaurs

THE CENOZOIC ERA: 65.5 MA - ONGOING

THE PALEOGENE PERIOD: 65.5 – 23.03 MA
Proliferation and diversification of Class mammalia
Large mammals develop

Two suborders of Order Primate develop 63 Ma

-Suborder Strepsirrhini
-Suborder Haplorrhini

Two infraorders of Suborder Haplorrhini develop 58 Ma

-Infraorder Tarsiiformes
-Infraorder Simiiformes (the simians)

Two parvorders develop from Infraorder Simiiformes 40 Ma

-Parvorder Platyrrhini
-Parvorder Catarrhini

Two Simian superfamilies evolved from Parvorder Catarrhini 25 ma

-Superfamily Cercopithecoidea (old world monkeys)
-Superfamily Hominoidea (old world apes)

THE NEOGENE PERIOD: 23.03 MA - ONGOING
Megafauna evolve

Two families evolve from Superfamily Hominoidea 18 Ma

-Family Hylobatidae (Lesser Apes - The Gibbons)
-Family Hominidae (Great Apes)

Two subfamilies evolve 14 Ma

-Subfamily Ponginae (Orangutans)
-Subfamily Homininae

Two tribes evolve from Subfamily Homininae 7 Ma

-Tribe Gorillini (Gorillas)
-Tribe Hominini (Hominids)

Tribe Hominini Splits into:

--Genus Pan (The chimpanzees)
-Subtribe Hominina (Full-time bipeds)
--Genus Orrorin
--Genus Sahelanthropus
--Genus Paranthropus
--Genus Ardipithecus
--Genus Kenyanthropus
--Genus Australopithecus

Eight species evolve from Genus Australopithecus

There were about five species of gracile Australopithecus:
-Australopithecus afarensis
-Australopithecus anamensis
-Australopithecus africanus
-Australopithecus bahrelghazalia
-Australopithecus garhi

And three other species called the robust Australopithecines:
-Australopithecus aethiopicus
-Australopithecus rubustus
-Australopithecus boisei

A new genus evolves from Species Australopithecus africanus

Genus Homo

Several species evolve from Genus Homo, including

-Homo habilus 2 Ma
-Homo ergaster 1.9 Ma
-Homo erectus 1.75 Ma
-Homo heidelbergensis 600 000 Years ago
-Homo sapiens neanderthalensis 300 000 Years ago
-Homo sapiens sapiens 120 000 years ago

The taxonomy of our species, Homo sapiens sapiens, is the following

Domain Eukarya
-Kingdom Animalia
--Phylum Chordata
---Subphylum Vertebrata
----Superclass Tetrapod
-----Series Amniote
------Class Mammalia
-------Infraclass Eutheria
--------Superorder Euarchontoglires
---------Order Primates
----------Suborder Haplorrhini
-----------Infraorder Simiiformes
------------Parvorder Catarrhini
-------------Superfamily Hominoidea
--------------Family Hominidae
---------------Tribe Hominini
----------------Subtribe Hominina
-----------------Genus Homo
------------------Species Homo sapiens
-------------------Subspecies Homo sapiens sapiens

So yeah.

Amphibians.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt


Did you just now type that all out from memory? Consider

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26-04-2013, 08:49 PM (This post was last modified: 26-04-2013 09:00 PM by Heathen.)
RE: Evolution
ChuckTesta,

I just wanted to agree with the two books recommended by Chas. I've been interested in science from a very young age and those where two very important books in my journey. They were true "Eureka" moments for me. Discovering Sagan was a game-changer.

"Which is more likely: that the whole natural order is suspended, or that a jewish minx should tell a lie?"- David Hume
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