Evolution Deniers
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24-07-2013, 12:59 PM
RE: Evolution Deniers
(24-07-2013 12:57 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  You are very right Mom...In the age of information there is no excuse for ignorance.

I disagree. Simply because information is widely available does not mean children aren't indoctrinated against it. I suggest all of you, if you haven't already, read Michael Schermer's book, The Believing Brain.

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24-07-2013, 01:02 PM
RE: Evolution Deniers
(24-07-2013 12:57 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(24-07-2013 12:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  And feel good is better than think good. Dodgy

For many, unfortunately, being taught well was a closed avenue.

Yes, the truly awful truth is that children are not only not taught good thinking skills, they are taught to not think, not question.

There are only a few things that threaten my peaceful nature - that is high on my list.
It is child abuse, it is a human rights violation.Angry

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-07-2013, 01:08 PM
RE: Evolution Deniers
Fundamentalists simply get to say evolution is a lie, and other fundamentalists will back them up. They don't need to do their own research: they simply invoke "research" already done by folks like Ken Hamm and other young-earth creationists.

There's a particular teaching in some branches of Christianity that holds there was a huge time lag between Genesis 1:1 (in which the heavens and the earth are created perfect) and Genesis 1:2 (in which the earth BECAME without form and void). These theists hope to squeeze geology, anthropology, science and history in between those two verses. What we see in the rest of Genesis, then, is not creation (the word "create" is hardly used) but the re-making of earth.

Yes, they distinguish between the creation of the sun and the making of the sun. What's the distinction? They won't really tell you. What was the state of the sun before it was "made" (not created) on the fourth day? They won't tell you. But the sun was not created on the fourth day. It was made. That's different. Somehow.

The fact that there was no worldwide catastrophe wiping out all life on earth between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago doesn't seem to faze these people. They have their ancient earth, and now our refusal to accept their ad hoc interpretation of Genesis 1 makes us stubborn rather than skeptical.

It's clever as hell, I'll give them that.
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24-07-2013, 01:09 PM
RE: Evolution Deniers
I have a very hard time understanding people like that. Especially when otherwise they seem perfectly smart...it's amazing how easily humans can be fooled and indoctrinated.

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24-07-2013, 01:33 PM
RE: Evolution Deniers
Organized Christianity has a strange habit of zeroing in on a certain piece of doctrine, create controversy around that doctrine, and elevate the importance of that doctrine.

Most Christian denominations have done this with evolution. Before the mid 1800s a literal interpretation of Genesis and a belief in a Young Earth was considered "odd" or "different" in terms of Christian theology.

In the same vein (although it's more focused internally instead of externally in the case of evolution), we see it happen with the rise of dispensationalism in the mid 1800s. Before this, the common and most understood view of salvation was election instead of free will.

Dispensationalism also gave rise to the now immensely popular "rapture", "pre-trib", and literal interpretation of Revelation. Before John Darby created dispensationalism, these views were more or less nonexistent.

Basically, it comes down to Christians lobbying and creating a niche market to try and win people over to their "side" or point of view. Once a side has been adopted, believers in that side evolve (lol pun) their beliefs and indoctrinate new additions.

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24-07-2013, 01:42 PM
RE: Evolution Deniers
(24-07-2013 12:33 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  
(24-07-2013 12:15 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  ...There, any books on dinosaurs were stored in the 'fiction' section of the school library and were later removed all together. The reason we were told was dinosaurs didn't exist because the bible didn't mention them...

I was shocked to hear someone I thought was a normal person say this to me a few years ago. I asked her about fossils, but I don't remember what she said about them. It was probably something like, God put them there to test our faith, or Satan put them there to deceive us, or they are Elephant bones that have been placed together in a wrong way to make them look like something else. I don't remember her response but I think I remember it being more along the lines of the last one.

Then I asked her if a mouse ran across the floor and over her feet would she not believe it really happened or that the mouse ever existed because the bible doesn't mention mice? (I actually don't know if the bible mentions mice or not, but the point's the same)

How do you fight that level of denial?

That's the thing...if they can alter their argument in the face of better evidence -- yet still remain so damn in the dark.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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24-07-2013, 02:10 PM
RE: Evolution Deniers
(24-07-2013 01:08 PM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  Fundamentalists simply get to say evolution is a lie, and other fundamentalists will back them up. They don't need to do their own research: they simply invoke "research" already done by folks like Ken Hamm and other young-earth creationists.

There's a particular teaching in some branches of Christianity that holds there was a huge time lag between Genesis 1:1 (in which the heavens and the earth are created perfect) and Genesis 1:2 (in which the earth BECAME without form and void). These theists hope to squeeze geology, anthropology, science and history in between those two verses. What we see in the rest of Genesis, then, is not creation (the word "create" is hardly used) but the re-making of earth.

Yes, they distinguish between the creation of the sun and the making of the sun. What's the distinction? They won't really tell you. What was the state of the sun before it was "made" (not created) on the fourth day? They won't tell you. But the sun was not created on the fourth day. It was made. That's different. Somehow.

The fact that there was no worldwide catastrophe wiping out all life on earth between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago doesn't seem to faze these people. They have their ancient earth, and now our refusal to accept their ad hoc interpretation of Genesis 1 makes us stubborn rather than skeptical.

It's clever as hell, I'll give them that.

That's also the thing I'm not flitting all over the world digging up fossils. I have to rely on the research done by others. But I don't just read one thing, I don't think science is supposed to draw conclusions -- they let the weight of the evidence make conclusions.

It can also be changed if the bulk of evidence goes in a different direction.

They just I dunno...take the evidence of just few people and call it true?


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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24-07-2013, 02:15 PM
RE: Evolution Deniers
(24-07-2013 01:33 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Organized Christianity has a strange habit of zeroing in on a certain piece of doctrine, create controversy around that doctrine, and elevate the importance of that doctrine.

Most Christian denominations have done this with evolution. Before the mid 1800s a literal interpretation of Genesis and a belief in a Young Earth was considered "odd" or "different" in terms of Christian theology.

In the same vein (although it's more focused internally instead of externally in the case of evolution), we see it happen with the rise of dispensationalism in the mid 1800s. Before this, the common and most understood view of salvation was election instead of free will.

Dispensationalism also gave rise to the now immensely popular "rapture", "pre-trib", and literal interpretation of Revelation. Before John Darby created dispensationalism, these views were more or less nonexistent.

Basically, it comes down to Christians lobbying and creating a niche market to try and win people over to their "side" or point of view. Once a side has been adopted, believers in that side evolve (lol pun) their beliefs and indoctrinate new additions.

Yes Christianity is a very heavily manufactured religion (one wonders why certain people still cling to it whilst even acknowledging that fact but I digress) and has been from the beginning. It was a catch-all religion that emphasised trust and blind obedience not critical thinking. The "core values" that they speak of so often are no more than 25-200 years old and nearly always shift with the times.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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24-07-2013, 02:15 PM
RE: Evolution Deniers
(24-07-2013 01:33 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Organized Christianity has a strange habit of zeroing in on a certain piece of doctrine, create controversy around that doctrine, and elevate the importance of that doctrine.

Most Christian denominations have done this with evolution. Before the mid 1800s a literal interpretation of Genesis and a belief in a Young Earth was considered "odd" or "different" in terms of Christian theology.

In the same vein (although it's more focused internally instead of externally in the case of evolution), we see it happen with the rise of dispensationalism in the mid 1800s. Before this, the common and most understood view of salvation was election instead of free will.

Dispensationalism also gave rise to the now immensely popular "rapture", "pre-trib", and literal interpretation of Revelation. Before John Darby created dispensationalism, these views were more or less nonexistent.

Basically, it comes down to Christians lobbying and creating a niche market to try and win people over to their "side" or point of view. Once a side has been adopted, believers in that side evolve (lol pun) their beliefs and indoctrinate new additions.

So, then maybe at some point in the future, they might abandon YEC and adopt evolution?


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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24-07-2013, 02:24 PM
RE: Evolution Deniers
(24-07-2013 02:15 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(24-07-2013 01:33 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Organized Christianity has a strange habit of zeroing in on a certain piece of doctrine, create controversy around that doctrine, and elevate the importance of that doctrine.

Most Christian denominations have done this with evolution. Before the mid 1800s a literal interpretation of Genesis and a belief in a Young Earth was considered "odd" or "different" in terms of Christian theology.

In the same vein (although it's more focused internally instead of externally in the case of evolution), we see it happen with the rise of dispensationalism in the mid 1800s. Before this, the common and most understood view of salvation was election instead of free will.

Dispensationalism also gave rise to the now immensely popular "rapture", "pre-trib", and literal interpretation of Revelation. Before John Darby created dispensationalism, these views were more or less nonexistent.

Basically, it comes down to Christians lobbying and creating a niche market to try and win people over to their "side" or point of view. Once a side has been adopted, believers in that side evolve (lol pun) their beliefs and indoctrinate new additions.

Yes Christianity is a very heavily manufactured religion (one wonders why certain people still cling to it whilst even acknowledging that fact but I digress) and has been from the beginning. It was a catch-all religion that emphasised trust and blind obedience not critical thinking. The "core values" that they speak of so often are no more than 25-200 years old and nearly always shift with the times.

I was reading post civil war in the US saw a marked rise in religions (think it was so when they began putting in god we trust on coins?). Prohibition was largely religious motivated I guess too.

Then again during McCarthyism in the 1950s..

But our resurgence here began in the 1980s...cold war stuff? But got real legs after 9/11.

I dunno if things will ever calm down.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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