Evolution and history.. we were apes
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09-08-2016, 04:34 PM
RE: Evolution and history.. we were apes
(09-08-2016 04:25 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(08-08-2016 10:56 AM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  A good book that gets into some of that stuff is Graham Hancock's Supernatural.
Check it out. He works on explaining cave art and religion and other things in an evolutionary context.

Isn't he one of the "Forbidden Archaeology" guys? Dodgy

Precisely, and each of his books gets a bit more weird than the one before, but are of interest, fun to read etc..
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09-08-2016, 04:35 PM
RE: Evolution and history.. we were apes
(09-08-2016 04:33 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  IN the society I live in there are people who have no knowledge of when WW 2 was or who Elvis Presley was, nor Chuck Barry. I haven't tried to test it, but I would bet they wouldn't know who Goldie Maier was nor Stalin nor Churchill.

Way to go to prove your point! Big Grin

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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09-08-2016, 04:50 PM (This post was last modified: 09-08-2016 04:53 PM by tomilay.)
RE: Evolution and history.. we were apes
(09-08-2016 03:24 PM)Simon Moon Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 12:13 AM)Minimalist Wrote:  Some people are still apes.

Actually, we are ALL still apes. Humans have never stopped being great apes.

The taxonomic family that we belong to is Hominidae, which includes: Pongo (orangutans), gorillas, Pan (common chimps and bonobos) and Homo (humans).

We, as opposed to other great apes, are in fact the chimps closest relatives. I wonder what they make of a species that wears speedos as the closest relation.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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09-08-2016, 05:40 PM
RE: Evolution and history.. we were apes
(09-08-2016 04:34 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  
(09-08-2016 04:25 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Isn't he one of the "Forbidden Archaeology" guys? Dodgy

Precisely, and each of his books gets a bit more weird than the one before, but are of interest, fun to read etc..

UR weird. Gasp
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24-08-2016, 10:25 PM
RE: Evolution and history.. we were apes
(09-08-2016 02:09 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  You're still not listening, OP.

They made up all kinds of stories about our origins-- usually religious, since that's how early humanity tended to explain things they couldn't understand (such as thunder, lightning, the sun, etc.)-- because of their curiousity and desire to have some explanation for things.

But they had no way to possibly recognize that evolution was happening to them. There is no point where they would have said "we are apes" or "we were apes". It's not about curiosity or anything else, so there's nothing to "cover up" with religion. There simply was no difference between any of the generations they could remember such that they would even notice the subtle changes-- we look today just like humans looked 2,000 years ago when Paul walked the earth, and yet we are evolving just as rapidly as at any time in the 2,900,000 years since Australopithecus.

On the other hand, as has been pointed out, religious organization probable emerged from basic shamanism/animism because of the benefits to tribal identity it provided. Roughly 85% of humanity seems to be genetically "coded" for religious sentimentality, if I recall correctly, and it is speculated that this is because it provided an advantage to tribes who had larger numbers of that phenotype, against other tribes who were less cohesive and more individualist. It's why religion and xenophobia are also so linked, unfortunately, since it provides a sense of "good" versus "bad" social behaviors and a definition of "us" versus "them".

So either I'm missing what exactly you're talking about, or you're missing what I am talking about.

With respect of course. If you're speaking about early humanity then we're talking about Homoerectus or sum such. I can see them assigning magical properties to thunder and taking part in Indian rain dance type mythology as a result but that doesn't mean they didn't know they weren't spawned from apes. Two different things. That just confirms they thought some psycho puppet master was at work against them, the apes, and all living creatures for that matter. But still no one knows if Homoerectus or early humanity worshiped a God or not. The history of any sophisticated religion that makes origin claims would come well after early humanity.

Still we can never pretend to know what "they didn't know" about their true ape like origins yet a claim is being made by assuming they would have to recognize change to realize ape ancestry. Not so if it was common knowledge. How often do you make a big deal that we're from earth?

Once religion came into the picture it could've muddied the waters of any prior knowledge to say the least as I've stated before. Certainly by stating in certain terms we are all children of a God, by force I might add, and those that suggest otherwise be removed from sight could convince any skeptic to think a few more times.
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24-08-2016, 10:35 PM
RE: Evolution and history.. we were apes
At work.

I think you've missed a point. At the time of passing onbstories even with primitive/basic language..... we're well beyond looking like our near primate relatives. About which I'm talking Neadertile.... not just other primates.

What others are saying is the change was so slow relative to cultual development that "Us being more ape like." And "Tellibg stories." Are way seperated by time. Dare I say aeons?
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25-08-2016, 08:39 PM (This post was last modified: 25-08-2016 09:36 PM by Gloucester.)
RE: Evolution and history.. we were apes
I am way late in joining this thread and it's too early in an insomniac morning (0335) to read it all now.

Cave art is about 40 000 years old, early stuff described as "figurative", abstract geometry - but what did it represent to the "artists"? What would they have made of this sign with one line down and a shorter one across it? Just a primitive "shorthand" representation of a tree?

Excellent book, with terrible (marketting department originated no doubt) title, "Secrets of the Ice Age", out of print now I fear, covers whole subject, in Europe at least, in a semi-academic style.

I have this enduring cartoon in my mind. Ug and his missus, Ig, are squatting in the cave entrance - watching the rain fall and the lightnjng zap. For the third day. He should be out looking for food, but . . .

Ug sighs, and says to Ig, "Y'know, it almost feels like there's some bastard up there that hates us." Ig gives a little gasp. They slowly turn to look at each other, eyes wide, upper lips trembling.

Oh, bugger! The seed is sown. The rot has started.

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
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