Evolution,creationist
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21-09-2014, 06:42 AM
RE: Evolution,creationist
(20-09-2014 12:32 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  Since when is evolution anything like winning the lottery?

That is how I am reading your interpretation of what it is suppose to be. If this is correct, you need to do more study on it. Not quite the same thing.

It’s true I know very of maths or care quite frankly quite using the million lotto tickets was only a metaphor .I don’t expect it to be examined by the maths Institute at Oxford University.
It’s a good thing I didn’t say something about a pig ear or I be examined by the Zoological people’
Beside none of these clever dick maths or Biological theories give one iota to the creation of consciousness.
It may be difficult for some people fathom this .Maybe I should write more slowly…….
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21-09-2014, 06:44 AM
RE: Evolution,creationist
(20-09-2014 05:14 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(20-09-2014 11:12 AM)phild249 Wrote:  Denying evolution /Darwin-ism seems ridiculous ,I mean we must have come from somewhere.....
But surely the argument should whether this was gods method of creationism or is it down to random luck of atoms finding each other by shear chance,like one man buying a lottory ticket everyday for a million years and winning the jackpot everyday.And none of these argument give the least explanation for conciousness,emotions

Nope. 100% false.
You understand neither Math/Probabilites (highly improbable single events happen all the time), Physics, nor Biology/Cellular biochemistry.

(*Lottery)

Once the initial event has occurred, it's no longer "shear chance".

Define (mathematically) "shear chance".

Take your time.

Drinking Beverage




It’s true I know very of maths or care quite frankly quite using the million lotto tickets was only a metaphor .I don’t expect it to be examined by the maths Institute at Oxford University.
It’s a good thing I didn’t say something about a pig ear or I be examined by the Zoological people’
Beside none of these clever dick maths or Biological theories give one iota to the creation of consciousness.
It may be difficult for some people fathom this .Maybe I should write more slowly…….
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21-09-2014, 06:48 AM
RE: Evolution,creationist
(20-09-2014 11:12 AM)phild249 Wrote:  Denying evolution /Darwin-ism seems ridiculous ,I mean we must have come from somewhere.....
But surely the argument should whether this was gods method of creationism or is it down to random luck of atoms finding each other by shear chance,like one man buying a lottory ticket everyday for a million years and winning the jackpot everyday.And none of these argument give the least explanation for conciousness,emotions

You have no actual understanding of how evolution operates. I suggest you read some books, or at least ask questions, before making any more really ignorant statements like those.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-09-2014, 06:53 AM
RE: Evolution,creationist
(20-09-2014 04:48 PM)Li_Holodomer Wrote:  Yeah. Watch Ken Ham and Bill Nye's debate, if you have not.

Nye wins by a landslide, because Ham wasn't really arguing....

But a fun examination of both positions.

ken wastes time trying to convince old earth creationists to change their views Facepalm
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21-09-2014, 06:56 AM
RE: Evolution,creationist
(20-09-2014 11:12 AM)phild249 Wrote:  Denying evolution /Darwin-ism seems ridiculous ,I mean we must have come from somewhere.....
But surely the argument should whether this was gods method of creationism or is it down to random luck of atoms finding each other by shear chance,like one man buying a lottory ticket everyday for a million years and winning the jackpot everyday.And none of these argument give the least explanation for conciousness,emotions
That last bit about consciousness and emotions...I have trouble when people seem to suggest that the existence of minds in some way points to there being a God since it's improbable that minds would arise through unguided natural processes. But if that kind of probability is troubling, how is it simpler to accept that minds (or in particular, a single, perfect mind) has simply always existed with no need for a cause or explanation? I can't wrap my head around why someone would reject the former but accept the latter.

If you're up for a book recommendation, I'd suggest Richard Carrier's Sense and Goodness Without God: A Defense of Metaphysical Naturalism. It addresses these things (cosmic origins, the existence of minds) from a naturalistic perspective and does it quite well, much better than any other supernaturalist/theistic explanations I've encountered.

I'm just thinking out loud.
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21-09-2014, 07:01 AM
RE: Evolution,creationist
(21-09-2014 06:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-09-2014 11:12 AM)phild249 Wrote:  Denying evolution /Darwin-ism seems ridiculous ,I mean we must have come from somewhere.....
But surely the argument should whether this was gods method of creationism or is it down to random luck of atoms finding each other by shear chance,like one man buying a lottory ticket everyday for a million years and winning the jackpot everyday.And none of these argument give the least explanation for conciousness,emotions

You have no actual understanding of how evolution operates. I suggest you read some books, or at least ask questions, before making any more really ignorant statements like those.
I can assure that YOU also know nothing of Evolution also ,if you do you must be the only person on the planet who does. I was merely enquiring about the possibility not making a statement as I do not have your knowledge definite facts like you.
I have read for information ,and studied neuroscience, psychology,conciousness ,avidly for more than 40 years but still do not have complete answers,and was not aware anybody had the answers ,now evidently I am proved wrong………..
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21-09-2014, 07:24 AM
RE: Evolution,creationist
(21-09-2014 06:56 AM)KnowtheSilence Wrote:  
(20-09-2014 11:12 AM)phild249 Wrote:  Denying evolution /Darwin-ism seems ridiculous ,I mean we must have come from somewhere.....
But surely the argument should whether this was gods method of creationism or is it down to random luck of atoms finding each other by shear chance,like one man buying a lottory ticket everyday for a million years and winning the jackpot everyday.And none of these argument give the least explanation for conciousness,emotions
That last bit about consciousness and emotions...I have trouble when people seem to suggest that the existence of minds in some way points to there being a God since it's improbable that minds would arise through unguided natural processes. But if that kind of probability is troubling, how is it simpler to accept that minds (or in particular, a single, perfect mind) has simply always existed with no need for a cause or explanation? I can't wrap my head around why someone would reject the former but accept the latter.

If you're up for a book recommendation, I'd suggest Richard Carrier's Sense and Goodness Without God: A Defense of Metaphysical Naturalism. It addresses these things (cosmic origins, the existence of minds) from a naturalistic perspective and does it quite well, much better than any other supernaturalist/theistic explanations I've encountered.
Thanks for the recommendation, at least you gave me a sensible reply.
My interest is in Consciousness and its creation .There are many books books I have read
Consciousness and the near death experience, Chris carter
Proof of Heaven Eben Alexander Neurosurgeon
Many lives many masters Brian Weiss
And many,many more over 40 years
Neither side can necessarily change people with preconceived verdicts but it should all be examined before making a decision and shouting uncertain knowledge as facts.
You on the other hand seem to have a more sensible and scientific view.
Thank you for you post
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21-09-2014, 07:27 AM
RE: Evolution,creationist
Why is 'Proof of Heaven' relevant to this discussion?


"Name me a moral statement made or moral action performed that could not have been made or done, by a non-believer..." - Christopher Hitchens



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21-09-2014, 07:28 AM
RE: Evolution,creationist
(21-09-2014 07:01 AM)phild249 Wrote:  
(21-09-2014 06:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  You have no actual understanding of how evolution operates. I suggest you read some books, or at least ask questions, before making any more really ignorant statements like those.
I can assure that YOU also know nothing of Evolution also ,if you do you must be the only person on the planet who does. I was merely enquiring about the possibility not making a statement as I do not have your knowledge definite facts like you.
I have read for information ,and studied neuroscience, psychology,conciousness ,avidly for more than 40 years but still do not have complete answers,and was not aware anybody had the answers ,now evidently I am proved wrong………..

You ask " is it down to random luck of atoms finding each other by shear chance,".

That shows an utter lack of understanding of evolution. And spelling. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-09-2014, 07:33 AM
RE: Evolution,creationist
Are you not a native English speaker? Your grammar and spelling seem at odds with your claim to have studied neuroscience and psychology for more than 40 years.

Do you really think there is no one on the planet who knows more than "nothing" of Evolution? You understand that Evolution is a human description of the origin of species, right? Surely it wouldn't be of much use if no one understood the theory?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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