Evolution,creationist
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21-09-2014, 07:49 AM (This post was last modified: 21-09-2014 07:53 AM by phild249.)
RE: Evolution,creationist
(21-09-2014 07:33 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  Are you not a native English speaker? Your grammar and spelling seem at odds with your claim to have studied neuroscience and psychology for more than 40 years.

Do you really think there is no one on the planet who knows more than "nothing" of Evolution? You understand that Evolution is a human description of the origin of species, right? Surely it wouldn't be of much use if no one understood the theory?
Yes ,I am a native English speaker, unfortunately, not necessarily a great writer or even speller come to that.And yes I studied the mentioned subjects, not perhaps on a University level but through available books etc...
Of course some of the theories must be correct, however is it really possible to KNOW a theory………?
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21-09-2014, 07:56 AM
RE: Evolution,creationist
(21-09-2014 07:49 AM)phild249 Wrote:  Of course some of the theories must be correct, however is it really possible to KNOW a theory………?
I think so, yes. But even if someone is using an odd epistemology that requires "knowledge" to entail absolute certainty (in other words, the belief that your theory cannot ever be proven wrong), it would still be possible to weigh competing theories and see which ones fit the given evidence better, which ones are better at making testable predictions, etc.

I'm just thinking out loud.
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21-09-2014, 08:31 AM
RE: Evolution,creationist
(20-09-2014 11:12 AM)phild249 Wrote:  Denying evolution /Darwin-ism seems ridiculous ,I mean we must have come from somewhere.....
But surely the argument should whether this was gods method of creationism or is it down to random luck of atoms finding each other by shear chance,like one man buying a lottory ticket everyday for a million years and winning the jackpot everyday.And none of these argument give the least explanation for conciousness,emotions

The error here is in the false choice of "it was either created that way or it was random chance". There is no such thing as random chance in nature if chance means an uncaused action. Every action has a cause and the nature of that action is determined by the nature of the entity that is the cause.

Notice I said every action has a cause but not every entity has a cause. That is because existence has metaphysical primacy. Cause and effect presuppose that something exists. The alternative to a conscious creator is not random chance but the laws of nature which are inherent in the things that act.

Because existence has primacy we know it wasn't a creator that did it because that would mean that consciousness has primacy. existence is a precondition of consciousness and not the other way around. Science bears that out in its discovery that matter and energy can neither be created or destroyed. That means they are eternal and asking who caused them is like asking who caused causality.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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21-09-2014, 08:32 AM (This post was last modified: 21-09-2014 09:18 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Evolution,creationist
(21-09-2014 06:44 AM)phild249 Wrote:  Beside none of these clever dick maths or Biological theories give one iota to the creation of consciousness.
It may be difficult for some people fathom this .Maybe I should write more slowly…….

Too bad for you, Neuro-science is well on the way to understanding how consciousness arises. The fact you are ignorant of these subjects in no way affects what science knows or does.

And BTW, this isn't TDSA, it's TTA.
(TDSA=TheDumbshitAtheist)

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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21-09-2014, 09:43 AM
RE: Evolution,creationist
(21-09-2014 08:32 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(21-09-2014 06:44 AM)phild249 Wrote:  Beside none of these clever dick maths or Biological theories give one iota to the creation of consciousness.
It may be difficult for some people fathom this .Maybe I should write more slowly…….

Too bad for you, Neuro-science is well on the way to understanding how consciousness arises. The fact you are ignorant of these subjects in no way affects what science knows or does.

And BTW, this isn't TDSA, it's TTA.
(TDSA=TheDumbshitAtheist)

I do so admire your gentle way of welcoming newcomers and helping them along their path to enlightenment.

Drinking Beverage

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21-09-2014, 10:40 AM (This post was last modified: 21-09-2014 12:34 PM by DLJ.)
RE: Evolution,creationist
(21-09-2014 08:32 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(21-09-2014 06:44 AM)phild249 Wrote:  Beside none of these clever dick maths or Biological theories give one iota to the creation of consciousness.
It may be difficult for some people fathom this .Maybe I should write more slowly…….

Too bad for you, Neuro-science is well on the way to understanding how consciousness arises. The fact you are ignorant of these subjects in no way affects what science knows or does.

And BTW, this isn't TDSA, it's TTA.

(TDSA=TheDumbshitAtheist)

It appears everybody else is pretty much in the dark about this except perhaps the a few who post on here , neuroscientists for all their studying and probing are actually making very little progress ,except theories ,suggested probability’s, and not clearly and unequivocally determined answers
I wonder what an alien species visiting a planet and finding a moulded object with capabilities of the brain far greater than any man made computer, would make of such an object, with no visibly obvious way it works would deduce the answers ,Oh it just develops consciousness on its own inside ,the people that own them have no idea where it comes from or why it even exists.
It must have just grown on its own
Amazingly there beings who can tell you where it never came from or why it was created ,yet offer no real alternative other than other than it was created along with the biological organic plants and creatures with natural laws, who creates these natural laws and selective species is another enigma.

Even Dawkins with all theories that make sense in many places ,view on the consciousness of man is only a guess and admits that really he has no more idea than anybody else
I
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21-09-2014, 11:50 AM
RE: Evolution,creationist
(21-09-2014 10:40 AM)phild249 Wrote:  
(21-09-2014 08:32 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Too bad for you, Neuro-science is well on the way to understanding how consciousness arises. The fact you are ignorant of these subjects in no way affects what science knows or does.

And BTW, this isn't TDSA, it's TTA.

(TDSA=TheDumbshitAtheist)
It appears everybody else is pretty much in the dark about this except perhaps the a few who post on here , neuroscientists for all their studying and probing are actually making very little progress ,except theories ,suggested probability’s, and not clearly and unequivocally determined answers

And that's the way science progresses. But you don't understand how science works, do you. Drinking Beverage

Quote:I wonder what an alien species visiting a planet and finding a moulded object with capabilities of the brain far greater than any man made computer, would make of such an object, with no visibly obvious way it works would deduce the answers ,Oh it just develops consciousness on its own inside ,the people that own them have no idea where it comes from or why it even exists.
It must have just grown on its own

Seriously? How did these aliens determine this 'moulded object' had any capabilities at all?

Quote:Amazingly there beings who can tell you where it never came from or why it was created ,yet offer no real alternative other than other than it was created along with the biological organic plants and creatures with natural laws, who creates these natural laws and selective species is another enigma.

Even Dawkins with all theories that make sense in many places ,view on the consciousness of man is only a guess and admits that really he has no more idea than anybody else
I

Not Dawkins nor any scientist 'admits' lack of knowledge about things. You falsely and ignorantly imply that scientists express certainty.

They don't - only religious dolts do.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-09-2014, 11:54 AM
RE: Evolution,creationist
(20-09-2014 04:44 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(20-09-2014 12:37 PM)One Above All Wrote:  First of all, nobody accepts the theory of evolution as proposed by Darwin; it's outdated.

Ummm, what? Darwin's theory of evolution is still accepted today, a lot has been added and changed but the base theory proposed by Darwin is the main proponent of the theory of Evolution.

Seeing as evolution, hell not even natural selection was really his own idea, and that many things he said was part of evolution was outdated, we can say darwin is outdated.

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21-09-2014, 12:01 PM
RE: Evolution,creationist
(21-09-2014 11:54 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(20-09-2014 04:44 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Ummm, what? Darwin's theory of evolution is still accepted today, a lot has been added and changed but the base theory proposed by Darwin is the main proponent of the theory of Evolution.

Seeing as evolution, hell not even natural selection was really his own idea, and that many things he said was part of evolution was outdated, we can say darwin is outdated.

Darwin had the insight to see natural selection and sexual selection explained diversity and adaptation, and supported it with an enormous amount of evidence.

Is his insight outdated? No.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-09-2014, 12:07 PM
RE: Evolution,creationist
(21-09-2014 12:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-09-2014 11:54 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Seeing as evolution, hell not even natural selection was really his own idea, and that many things he said was part of evolution was outdated, we can say darwin is outdated.

Darwin had the insight to see natural selection and sexual selection explained diversity and adaptation, and supported it with an enormous amount of evidence.

Is his insight outdated? No.

But many of his explanations for it are. where is the last time we say darwin mention DNA?

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