Evolution debate. Please help!
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16-12-2013, 10:59 AM
Evolution debate. Please help!
I am no debater, and I got into a conversation with a co-worker and I would like to find an answer to a question I got from him.

He asked "if evolution is real, then how do we have male and female of any species"

I know there must be a simple example, but not having come across that (as far as I can remember) in my readings, I was wondering if anyone knew a good place to find an answer to that question.

Thanks in advance!
Andy
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16-12-2013, 12:25 PM (This post was last modified: 16-12-2013 12:28 PM by Peterkin.)
RE: Evolution debate. Please help!
Nothing in evolution is simple enough for a creationist to comprehend.

It took several million years for unicellular organisms to stumble upon a better method of reproduction than simple fission. It was probably a mutant amoeba that split prematurely and survived as two incomplete, non-identical offspring. They would then have continued to replicate by mitosis, making two separate lines of descendants, until, due to some new circumstance, two of these new forms recombined.

The strain thus produced had an advantage over the duplicating strain, in that the two different offspring (and their divergent lines) had double the chances of preserving useful DNA in different conditions. At each divergence and reconvergence, the odds of survival of some combinations improved, while less successful ones died out. The more strains of the same species you have, the better able that species becomes to exploit opportunities for adaptation. So the species that have two continuous strains of DNA repository that recombine regularly have far batter adaptive capability that species that replicate a single strain.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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16-12-2013, 12:29 PM
RE: Evolution debate. Please help!
Asexual reproduction just isn't good enough for successful survivorship. Even bacteria have a form of 'sex'---conjugation. Evolution is all about VARIATION.

I do wonder about nipples though. Where did those originate from---and why on both sexes? Must do some googling soon.
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16-12-2013, 12:34 PM
RE: Evolution debate. Please help!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_o...production

“The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is because vampires are allergic to bullshit.” ― Richard Pryor
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16-12-2013, 09:43 PM
RE: Evolution debate. Please help!
Well...my main concern is how the male and female "system" of reproduction started. Like how did the first single, asexual, being end up male and female. Which I know mutation is involved...but I'm really frustrated because this guy is a completely ignorant (racist, but that's beyond the point) stumped me with this question that feels like it SHOULD be a softball question and I could knock it out of the park.

I'm about to throw out the "just because we don't understand something, doesn't mean we won't someday" argument, but I know to him, that is my way of giving up and my pride is not letting me go there...

I should just ignore him....but once he told me he took his kids out of their science classes when they started teaching evolution, I realized he is exactly who I want to try to get through to...

Ugh so frustrating...
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16-12-2013, 09:52 PM
RE: Evolution debate. Please help!
What's the point? You said it yourself; he's not only ignorant, he's willfully ignorant.

It's not that there isn't an answer to his question, it's that he's obviously not interested in finding it out. He could have researched it himself if he did.

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
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16-12-2013, 09:55 PM
RE: Evolution debate. Please help!
Wont he just accept the 'random mutation' of the GAP argument?
Tell him that spontaneous stuff "just happens".
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16-12-2013, 10:06 PM (This post was last modified: 16-12-2013 10:40 PM by sporehux.)
RE: Evolution debate. Please help!
(16-12-2013 10:59 AM)CasualSpooner Wrote:  I am no debater, and I got into a conversation with a co-worker and I would like to find an answer to a question I got from him.

He asked "if evolution is real, then how do we have male and female of any species"

Andy

Holly shit ! you work with Ray Comfort ?, can you get me his autograph. JK

Start with evolution as we know it can be proven in our time, its the gradual change from one kind to another.
Go with All modern dogs evolved from a common wolf type (we have solid evidence of this and even bat shit creationists mostly admit this)
Huge dogs and tiny dogs have resulted from environmental evolution (human influence is the environment),
Male and female Chihuahua's evolved at the same time along with each other, not independently, and so did Great Danes.

As mutations in the Chihuahua's and Great Danes genes progress over a long time and they are not shared with each other, they will inevitably become breeding incompatible (cite the salamander evidence for ring speciation).
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/ev...cept.shtml

Humans have a broken "fused" gene, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome_2_(human) , many think this mutation triggered the split from us remaining breed compatible with our common ape/monkey ancestor brothers. And is proof that gene mutations are not always harmful or entropy.
And also addresses the belief that a faulty gene would make that individual unable to pass it along to its species because it would be supposedly infertile because of it "Ray Comfort".

Its likely we great apes were like different breeds of dogs, changed by environmental and social isolation, that evolved us differently, physically and over time the fused gene happened to speciate us.
Although if we were able to breed with some of the Apes still, i'm sure the creationist would have a explanation for it.

if we could cross breed with a Gorilla, gorillas would be promoted to a sub human and evolution would still be just a theory.......

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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16-12-2013, 10:08 PM
RE: Evolution debate. Please help!
Tell him to read this, and ask questions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_o...production



Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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16-12-2013, 10:28 PM
RE: Evolution debate. Please help!
(16-12-2013 10:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Tell him to read this, and ask questions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_o...production

LOL

...several competing scientific hypotheses
...hypotheses for the origins of sex are difficult to test experimentally
...mutation in an haploid individual

The word "mutation" appears 47 times on that page.

You accuse us of God-of-the-Gaps and yet you are happy to have;

random,
spontaneous,
mutation,
hypothesis which are difficult to test.....
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