Evolution for dummies
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07-12-2013, 11:23 AM
Evolution for dummies
Hello,

I'm a newbie when it comes to evolutionary theory. I believe I have a naturally science and skeptical mind but it was hindered in my early teens due to theological issues. During my tenure in christianity I often heard the argument that evolution is not science because science is done by repeatable experimentation and we can't repeatable experiment with evolution if it takes millions of years.

I would assume the scientists here might help me understand how it is actual science or how the YEC narrow definition of science is biased and incorrect.

Would love your thoughts on this. Thanks. Bowing

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07-12-2013, 11:28 AM
RE: Evolution for dummies
See this thread for the creationist view of evolution

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...-evolution
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07-12-2013, 11:39 AM
RE: Evolution for dummies
(07-12-2013 11:28 AM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  See this thread for the creationist view of evolution

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...-evolution

Thanks GE,
The thread didnt answer my question, it actually raised and half answerd one that i had before.

My question is how is evolution, science, in the YEC definition of science? Is the definition faulty?

The question that the thread brought back from my christian days is the YEC assertion that genetic info is not generated by mutation, but lost. Is this true? Han gave an example of genetic info being added but I have never heard of it. Are there more?

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07-12-2013, 11:45 AM
RE: Evolution for dummies
(07-12-2013 11:23 AM)djkamilo Wrote:  Hello,

I'm a newbie when it comes to evolutionary theory. I believe I have a naturally science and skeptical mind but it was hindered in my early teens due to theological issues. During my tenure in christianity I often heard the argument that evolution is not science because science is done by repeatable experimentation and we can't repeatable experiment with evolution if it takes millions of years.

I would assume the scientists here might help me understand how it is actual science or how the YEC narrow definition of science is biased and incorrect.

Would love your thoughts on this. Thanks. Bowing

That is a narrow and incorrect definition of science.

Quote:Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-12-2013, 11:47 AM
RE: Evolution for dummies
(07-12-2013 11:39 AM)djkamilo Wrote:  
(07-12-2013 11:28 AM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  See this thread for the creationist view of evolution

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...-evolution

Thanks GE,
The thread didnt answer my question, it actually raised and half answerd one that i had before.

My question is how is evolution, science, in the YEC definition of science? Is the definition faulty? Yes.

The question that the thread brought back from my christian days is the YEC assertion that genetic info is not generated by mutation, but lost. Is this true? No. Han gave an example of genetic info being added but I have never heard of it. Are there more?

Mutation is change, therefore whatever it is that you see as information is altered, not lost.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-12-2013, 11:55 AM
RE: Evolution for dummies
Here's an example of evolution observed in the lab. Definitely a repeatable experiment Thumbsup
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14...e-lab.html
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07-12-2013, 11:59 AM
RE: Evolution for dummies
(07-12-2013 11:55 AM)Smercury44 Wrote:  Here's an example of evolution observed in the lab. Definitely a repeatable experiment Thumbsup
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14...e-lab.html

Very cool!
Thanks soulless ginger, ahem, i mean Smercury Angel

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08-12-2013, 12:10 AM
RE: Evolution for dummies
Hi,

Science doesn't mean that we have to duplicate a phenomenon that we describe in a theory. Once we formulate a theory, which is backed up by evidence (experiments, findings, calculations, etc). we can predict things based on that theory. If the predictions are wrong, there is a flaw in the theory, which necessitates further inquiries.

For instance: Electricity is a theory from physics, and as you can see we have been able to utilize electricity in our everyday life because we can predict the outcome when we build electrical devices.

Evolution also helps us to predict things.

Obviously, one is that bacteria (duplicating every 20-60 min under good conditions) develop resistance to antibiotics after exposure. To the best of my knowledge, we can not observe evolution with any other organism, which has a longer replication time, because it would take too long.

Breeding dogs, horses, cats or breeding plants is based on evolution as well. You cross individuals, in which you see a desired phenotype to obtain offspring with that phenotype. As an example: You might want to bread an especially sturdy horse. For that you select an individual horse, which is especially sturdy, cross him with multiple other horses, observe the offspring and continue crossing sturdy horses until this phenotype is maximized to your satisfaction. Or: You want tomatoes which aren't squishy and slow rotting. Or you want wheat plants, which are very bountiful.

In the lab, our research is based on evolution, too. We are working to characterise the function and mechanism of important proteins that act in our body. It is very challenging, and sometimes we need to look for homologues in other organisms. Homologues are proteins from other organisms which are relatives to the proteins of the organism we are studying (homo sapiens). The homology is the degree to which they are similar. If you compare humans with other apes, you very often get homologies higher than 95%! If you compare humans with mice, that number doesn't fall much. But we often compare humans with further, more simple relatives in our search for proteins that are simpler and easier to work with. When we compare human proteins with yeast proteins, we still often get 30-40% homology. And by comparing protein sequences from a lot of different organisms, I can see how that protein has evolved over time!

There are definitely other examples, but I give you these for now.

I hope it helped Smile

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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08-12-2013, 12:14 AM
RE: Evolution for dummies
(08-12-2013 12:10 AM)Youkay Wrote:  Hi,

Science doesn't mean that we have to duplicate a phenomenon that we describe in a theory. Once we formulate a theory, which is backed up by evidence (experiments, findings, calculations, etc). we can predict things based on that theory. If the predictions are wrong, there is a flaw in the theory, which necessitates further inquiries.

For instance: Electricity is a theory from physics, and as you can see we have been able to utilize electricity in our everyday life because we can predict the outcome when we build electrical devices.

Evolution also helps us to predict things.

Obviously, one is that bacteria (duplicating every 20-60 min under good conditions) develop resistance to antibiotics after exposure. To the best of my knowledge, we can not observe evolution with any other organism, which has a longer replication time, because it would take too long.

Breeding dogs, horses, cats or breeding plants is based on evolution as well. You cross individuals, in which you see a desired phenotype to obtain offspring with that phenotype. As an example: You might want to bread an especially sturdy horse. For that you select an individual horse, which is especially sturdy, cross him with multiple other horses, observe the offspring and continue crossing sturdy horses until this phenotype is maximized to your satisfaction. Or: You want tomatoes which aren't squishy and slow rotting. Or you want wheat plants, which are very bountiful.

In the lab, our research is based on evolution, too. We are working to characterise the function and mechanism of important proteins that act in our body. It is very challenging, and sometimes we need to look for homologues in other organisms. Homologues are proteins from other organisms which are relatives to the proteins of the organism we are studying (homo sapiens). The homology is the degree to which they are similar. If you compare humans with other apes, you very often get homologies higher than 95%! If you compare humans with mice, that number doesn't fall much. But we often compare humans with further, more simple relatives in our search for proteins that are simpler and easier to work with. When we compare human proteins with yeast proteins, we still often get 30-40% homology. And by comparing protein sequences from a lot of different organisms, I can see how that protein has evolved over time!

There are definitely other examples, but I give you these for now.

I hope it helped Smile
Thank you
Bowing

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08-12-2013, 06:33 AM
RE: Evolution for dummies
Any other questions for the forum on this matter, OP?

Could be interesting.

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