Evolution is a psuedoscience, myth, and simply just a religion
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20-08-2015, 11:47 PM
RE: Evolution is a psuedoscience, myth, and simply just a religion
It should also be noted that each gene reproduces only within its "function-group", and unless it mutates in a way that makes it react with other systems, those genes don't care what the other genes are doing. We are a collection of tens of thousands of different genes, and a mutation in one may not affect any other system, but be beneficial (or harmful) by itself to the individual.

Plus, as in the example of the albinos, whether a mutation is "harmful" or not (providing it doesn't cause chemical interactions with other proteins) depends on the environment. An albino rat has to deal with suddenly not blending in with the background, and becomes more vulnerable to predators-- harmful. An albino human has managed to take himself out of the predator-prey dynamic, so it doesn't affect them.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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20-08-2015, 11:52 PM
RE: Evolution is a psuedoscience, myth, and simply just a religion
(20-08-2015 04:55 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Evolution is a religion because it is based on Faith and Hope in the unknown and unseen.
I stopped reading after one sentence because in that one sentence you managed to be wrong at a bare minimum of 5 times.



(20-08-2015 04:55 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Whats your opinion..... ?

That you're an idiot.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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21-08-2015, 12:08 AM
RE: Evolution is a psuedoscience, myth, and simply just a religion
By the way, though the book is quite a bit old and thus outdated in terms of all we've learned about genetics in the last almost 40 years, Richard Dawkins' The Selfish Gene is an excellent guide to how DNA mutations work and interact with the other systems, as well as how the thousands of competing genes and the inheritance thereof influence evolution.

It's commonly mistaken as a title; people think it means "there is a gene for selfishness", but in fact he's referring to the fact that genes don't care about higher principles, they're just trying to get reproduced, so to speak.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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21-08-2015, 12:08 AM (This post was last modified: 21-08-2015 12:24 AM by Reltzik.)
RE: Evolution is a psuedoscience, myth, and simply just a religion
(20-08-2015 09:45 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  
(20-08-2015 09:42 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  GirlyMan would like to see that data and your math..

No problem Girlyman..

Hyperlink to http://www.davidjayjordan.com/MathematicalProofs.html

But the long posts that have graphs and hyperlinks are 10 and 11 pages respectively, the others are shorter.

ATB in your research, if you have mathematical questions just ask.

You may need some study also in geometry... but I can provide those details as well

...... it's woo all the way down.

Okay, since this thread's about evolution I'm going to mostly limit myself to the one titled "Mathematical Proof of DESIGN in the Human Body", a title that would be a case for a false advertising suit if anyone ever paid money for it.

First, this is not a mathematical proof at all. I'm not just talking about the unjournalistic format -- the lack of an abstract, or citations, or division of the proof into sections or logical progression. (The format is more like something I'd expect to hear from a carnival barker.) That I could tolerate, even if the lack of citations is kinda crumby. No, even worse, this lacks all the MATHEMATICAL qualities of a math proof. There's few terms clearly defined, no articulation of starting assumptions, no references to theorems employed, no care to establish that the conditions required to employ those theories pertain, and an utter disdain for the deductive process. This. Is. Not. Math. It REFERENCES a few mathematical concepts at a few points, but this no more qualifies as math than including a few seconds of a car chase into a montage of stock footage qualifies as driving.

Stripping away all the poetry and most of the crazy (not because it isn't all crazy, but because most of the crazy is superfluous to what we might charitably call the argument), the rough structure goes like this.

(1) The golden ratio and its square root are special numbers.
(2) We encounter them in our body.
(3) Therefore Design and Designer and God and etc.

There is NO ARGUMENT on this page as to how (3) follows as a conclusion. I THINK when taken in the context of the other pages that this is an argument from beauty (because the golden ratio is beautiful?), or maybe its an argument from incredulity (because evolution = raw chance = uniform probability distribution across all possible forms with no weighting or affect by natural selection), but it's so incoherent and disorganized it's hard to be sure. NOTHING addressing the actual theory of evolution here, not even a cheap bundle package of the usual suspects of fallacious attacks that we've come to expect. It comes down to "golden ratio proves designer, therefore not evolution", with a lot of negative representations of how someone who believes in evolutionary origins must view themselves.

Anyone remotely familiar with both biology and mathematics could easilly present alternatives for how the human body (and most other large bodies in nature) might present the golden ratio, starting with fractal growth in the womb and recursive generation of members. Or for that matter, even if we were to grant the entire premise, we could say, "yeah, the golden ratio was there in the earliest life forms, and it was an advantageous trait that persisted as we evolved". THIS DOESN'T ARGUE AGAINST EVOLUTION.

And seriously, the golden ratio and its square root and measuring them are the ONLY MATH HERE. Elsewhere in the site, on the pages that don't pretend to deal with evolution, we've got some interesting geometric diagrams from architecture that, again, hinge on the same 3-step argument, only this time ignoring the fact that this architecture was DESIGNED BY HUMANS. But on this page about a designed human body, NOTHING ABOUT MATH EXCEPT GETTING OUT A TAPE MEASURE AND DOING BASIC ARITHMETIC. You can't even call it geometry.

And he manages to screw even that much up. Here, talking about the navel: "What is your belly button, the place from which you were nourished within the womb, as it is the perfect balance between your upper mass and your lower mass?" Now, bear in mind two things. First, that your center of mass changes with the position of your limbs. Pull up your legs and your center of mass moves up. And second he's talking about where the umbilical cord connected IN THE WOMB. You know, back when you had a bloated head, underdeveloped limbs, and were in what is known as the FETAL POSITION, for.... why's it called that again? Lemme think about this.... sure it'll come to me eventually...

That's what happens when you strip away the irrelevant crazy... and it's almost a shame to do so. There are so many gems of hillarity in there. The freak show is more fun than the main event. Some samples:

The human body is refered to as "the most highly technological orgasm possible". I would ascribe this to nothing more than a typo if it weren't for the rest.

Now the following few are prefaced with the phrase "you cannot have false humility of shyness". Bear that in mind. Girly, once this is done and I'm clear of the thread, I hereby challenge you to show him how not having the false humility of shyness is done.

"That’s the location the sexy lord put your divine member at...but that is later.... or do it now. Measure your placement of your divine member whether male or female..." (Elipsises his, not mine)

First. "DIVINE MEMBER." He's telling us not to be shy and can't even type the word "genitals".

And second, "sexy lord". This is a pattern of his. Some other examples:

On another page he talks about the "sexy star of David".

Back to this page, "creation of Adam and sexy Eve." Aparently Adam wasn't sexy, because who cares if Eve's turned on.

"and where is the nourishing nodules whether male or female, again at the 3/4 mark, even though in females it might be just a bit below because beauty dips with age." And in men with manboobs. Also, "NOURISHING NODULES". AFTER he tells us not to be shy.

... also, this is stuff that he describes as "ETERNAL MATHEMATICAL TRUTHS and PROOFS that you are indeed special, in that you have been given a divine body whether male or female". Apparently the calculations required for eternal mathematical truth run afoul of age-sag. I guess unsexy is ungodly?

...

You know what? Forget math, biology, geometry, astronomy... is there a PSYCHOLOGIST in the house?
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21-08-2015, 12:24 AM
RE: Evolution is a psuedoscience, myth, and simply just a religion
You are a brave man, Reltzik, to dive so deeply into the world of woocraft.

Some with weaker constitutions might never have survived.

I got about three paragraphs in before I started thinking, "this guy is in desperate need of a psychologist", for reasons you enumerated above.

As I wrote, I'm confident that he is not a scientist, and didn't take more than one biology class... if at all. I'm guessing he went up to the professor with his woo, and the professor recoiled in horror at the prospect of IQ points being sucked out of his head just by listening to too much of that drivel, and told him to get lost. Now he mopes about "conspiracies" to deny nonbelievers. Whatever, dude, kick rocks!

The more I read of his other posts, the sillier I feel for even engaging with him, myself, despite my usual policy of giving people the benefit of the doubt (and my desire to make sure no one visits TTA and sees unanswered woo, thus getting the impression--which the wooists are glad to promote--that we "just don't want to hear The Truth™ about science") and waiting until they show clear, willful dishonesty before I ignore them.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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21-08-2015, 01:20 AM
RE: Evolution is a psuedoscience, myth, and simply just a religion
(20-08-2015 11:47 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  It should also be noted that each gene reproduces only within its "function-group", and unless it mutates in a way that makes it react with other systems, those genes don't care what the other genes are doing. We are a collection of tens of thousands of different genes, and a mutation in one may not affect any other system, but be beneficial (or harmful) by itself to the individual.

Plus, as in the example of the albinos, whether a mutation is "harmful" or not (providing it doesn't cause chemical interactions with other proteins) depends on the environment. An albino rat has to deal with suddenly not blending in with the background, and becomes more vulnerable to predators-- harmful. An albino human has managed to take himself out of the predator-prey dynamic, so it doesn't affect them.

Yes color change or a diviation from the norm, or god given colors do make albinos less successful as aberations or changes are not well received by their own species only by their predators........ who usually can more easily identify them and prey upon them. Changed individuals are very very very suspectible to predation, they do not change from their species, in any major way but color is one thing that can change according to their given genetic code or DESIGN.

As for alibino humans I differ again, as man or the human race is racist by nature, and doesn't like differences and so uses differences to defame most albinos, unless respectful cultures and people protect them from these racists. People dont evolve, their behaviour does not evolve, world governemtns dont evolve, nothing gets better by itself....... and every individual that the Lord ever created has to learn truths by themselves and for themselves as it will not go directly into their DNA and onto a new generation.

Evolution does not occur in learning or in biology.
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21-08-2015, 01:22 AM
RE: Evolution is a psuedoscience, myth, and simply just a religion
(20-08-2015 11:52 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(20-08-2015 04:55 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Evolution is a religion because it is based on Faith and Hope in the unknown and unseen.
I stopped reading after one sentence because in that one sentence you managed to be wrong at a bare minimum of 5 times.



(20-08-2015 04:55 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Whats your opinion..... ?

That you're an idiot.

Methinks you have been hitting the bottle toooo long. Sober up and get back to us.
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21-08-2015, 01:25 AM
RE: Evolution is a psuedoscience, myth, and simply just a religion
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't links in a signature against the rules?

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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21-08-2015, 01:25 AM
RE: Evolution is a psuedoscience, myth, and simply just a religion
(21-08-2015 01:20 AM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  Yes color change or a diviation from the norm, or god given colors do make albinos less successful as aberations or changes are not well received by their own species only by their predators........ who usually can more easily identify them and prey upon them. Changed individuals are very very very suspectible to predation, they do not change from their species, in any major way but color is one thing that can change according to their given genetic code or DESIGN.

As for alibino humans I differ again, as man or the human race is racist by nature, and doesn't like differences and so uses differences to defame most albinos, unless respectful cultures and people protect them from these racists. People dont evolve, their behaviour does not evolve, world governemtns dont evolve, nothing gets better by itself....... and every individual that the Lord ever created has to learn truths by themselves and for themselves as it will not go directly into their DNA and onto a new generation.

Evolution does not occur in learning or in biology.

1) Stop ignoring people!

2) Reply in such a way that it shows you've read other people's posts.

3) SPELL-CHECKER!

Okay, with that out of the way....

Might Davidjayjordan actually reply to my example of Human eye photo-receptor mutation and/or RocketSurgeon76's many, many more examples?
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21-08-2015, 01:26 AM
RE: Evolution is a psuedoscience, myth, and simply just a religion
(21-08-2015 12:08 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  By the way, though the book is quite a bit old and thus outdated in terms of all we've learned about genetics in the last almost 40 years, Richard Dawkins' The Selfish Gene is an excellent guide to how DNA mutations work and interact with the other systems, as well as how the thousands of competing genes and the inheritance thereof influence evolution.

It's commonly mistaken as a title; people think it means "there is a gene for selfishness", but in fact he's referring to the fact that genes don't care about higher principles, they're just trying to get reproduced, so to speak.

Got ya again Rocket... there are no genes that dictate altruistic behaviors.... its a CHOICE given to each individual human. Yes, devoid genetics want to find genes they can manipulate so they can control the population via their vile genetic control.... the Nazis tried that one, but their superior race failed, but genetics and man is still trying and still trying to manipulate the perfect human...

But this time they are not waiting millions of years but are literally trying to transmutate and labratory wise change genes to try and develop their new Frankenstien monsters who they say will be better than the old humans.

Thanks for again confirming that genetics aim is control and manipulation.
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