Evolution of Camouflage
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13-09-2014, 04:10 PM
RE: Evolution of Camouflage
Collective consciousness .Only explanation
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13-09-2014, 04:49 PM
RE: Evolution of Camouflage
(13-09-2014 04:10 PM)mikethomas3364 Wrote:  Collective consciousness .Only explanation

You're missing something from your post. That's alright. I've written it for you:
If you exclude all the rational and evidence-based explanations, along with the rest of the woo-based ones.

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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13-09-2014, 08:07 PM
RE: Evolution of Camouflage
Touche!
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13-09-2014, 08:08 PM
RE: Evolution of Camouflage
What is behind all the rationale?
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14-09-2014, 04:14 AM
RE: Evolution of Camouflage
(13-09-2014 08:08 PM)mikethomas3364 Wrote:  What is behind all the rationale?

What rationale? Your question makes no sense.

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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14-09-2014, 05:32 AM
RE: Evolution of Camouflage
(14-09-2014 04:14 AM)One Above All Wrote:  
(13-09-2014 08:08 PM)mikethomas3364 Wrote:  What is behind all the rationale?

What rationale? Your question makes no sense.

I think he is asking you to teach him the entire theory of evolution. Facepalm

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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27-09-2014, 02:31 PM
RE: Evolution of Camouflage
Another question that occurs to me: Where do these genetic variations come from?

Using the example of the bug who looks like a leaf: a random mutation makes him look a little more like his surroundings, and thus, he's not eaten. His genes are then passed on and, in time, the whole population looks exactly like the leaves in which they live. But where do these mutations come from in the first place? Is there some "file" or "database" in which an infinite variety of mutations is stored somewhere in the genome? Or are these optional mutations added as the species progresses, and if so, from where? I'm just kind of confused about how a bug will look more like a leaf or a yak will have thicker fur in a colder environment or certain humans will be able to digest milk in adulthood. I don't understand where these options come from to begin with.


I'm also looking into books on genetics; this aspect of evolutionary biology is fascinating me lately.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
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27-09-2014, 02:36 PM
RE: Evolution of Camouflage
(27-09-2014 02:31 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  Another question that occurs to me: Where do these genetic variations come from?

Using the example of the bug who looks like a leaf: a random mutation makes him look a little more like his surroundings, and thus, he's not eaten. His genes are then passed on and, in time, the whole population looks exactly like the leaves in which they live. But where do these mutations come from in the first place? Is there some "file" or "database" in which an infinite variety of mutations is stored somewhere in the genome? Or are these optional mutations added as the species progresses, and if so, from where? I'm just kind of confused about how a bug will look more like a leaf or a yak will have thicker fur in a colder environment or certain humans will be able to digest milk in adulthood. I don't understand where these options come from to begin with.


I'm also looking into books on genetics; this aspect of evolutionary biology is fascinating me lately.


Copying errors. DNA replicates at something like a 98% success rate but the more times you copy something the higher the chance of an error. Most of the time the error is bad but every once in a while the error is good.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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27-09-2014, 04:14 PM
RE: Evolution of Camouflage
(27-09-2014 02:31 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  Another question that occurs to me: Where do these genetic variations come from?

Using the example of the bug who looks like a leaf: a random mutation makes him look a little more like his surroundings, and thus, he's not eaten. His genes are then passed on and, in time, the whole population looks exactly like the leaves in which they live. But where do these mutations come from in the first place? Is there some "file" or "database" in which an infinite variety of mutations is stored somewhere in the genome? Or are these optional mutations added as the species progresses, and if so, from where? I'm just kind of confused about how a bug will look more like a leaf or a yak will have thicker fur in a colder environment or certain humans will be able to digest milk in adulthood. I don't understand where these options come from to begin with.


I'm also looking into books on genetics; this aspect of evolutionary biology is fascinating me lately.

Mind if I have a shot?

To start off: No. There is no 'database' or 'file' of mutations... well not in any genome... we are building one ourselves though.... and they ain't optional, they are a random crapshoot; sometimes you get good and you have extraordinarily dense bones which prove to be virtually unbreakable, sometimes your blood cells aren't formed right leading you to die as baby in the womb due to lack of oxygen.

Genetic variation has two main sources:
Mutation; which can be classified as any change in the nucleotide sequence which comprise genes, which have a variety of sources themselves and a variety of forms.
Sexually reproductive species also have their own mechanisms which enable variation during the formation of sex cells and fertilisation; these being Chromosomal Crossing Over, Independent/random assortment and random fertilisation, in addition to random mutations as above.

Keep in mind that all mutations are technically random; there's no 'database' so to say of possible variations, they happen with no direction. Mutations do indeed build up in populations, but only when they are 'selected', meaning such a mutation produces a result which makes the individual more fit, or at least have no effect on it. Fitness is generally described as a given individual's ability to survive and reproduce successfully.

Now, random mutations are happening all the time; we just don't notice because they tend to happen in the vast areas of our genome which we don't use any more (which is a product of their random nature)... Or they occur but have no effect at all or they are repaired. Just for a sec, we'll get away from mutations and talk about genes what they affect: genes are comprised of sets of three nucleotides, known as codons; these codons 'code' for specific amino acids during protein synthesis, which basically affects everything.
In the presence of mutagens (radiation, chemicals, etc.), or through the process of DNA copying or repair, accidents happen and mutation occurs; either through Insertion (the addition of a nucleotide), Deletion (the removal of a nucleotide) or Point (the replacement of one nucleotide for another) mutations, the sequence changes; Deletion and Insertion mutations are generally what cause most of the changes, as everything following that mutation changes as well: kinda like how a line of people will change if one person pushes in; everybody behind him goes backward, or when somebody leaves everybody goes forward. This alters practically all off the codons after the mutation. Point mutations only change things at a specific location.
These sorts of mutations (aside from deletions) are able to occur due to the presence of 'free nucleotides', these are nucleotides which are just kinda hanging around in the nucleus, waiting for any chance they get to shoe-horn themselves in or for them to be used in replication or RNA formation... Except for thymine; he's not allowed in RNA.

In sexually reproductive species... We go further than just letting random stuff dictate the entirety of our survival, and so, because we are indeed awesome, we engineer our own variation. We do this through the wonders of yet more random processes!
Sex cells are formed via meiosis, which entails a small number of different forms of variation-creating processes. During the Prophase 1 part of meiosis, Chromosomal crossing over occurs, the genes from homologous chromosomes swap; the chromosomes cross and exchange entire sections, leading the chromosomes to be different at the outset; then random or Independent Assortment happens; chromosomes are randomly sent to different poles of a dividing cell, creating yet more diversity in the daughters. Lastly, the cells which fertilise and fuse are random, leading the resultant creature to be genetically distinct from the parents due to having the genes from both mother and father which have been moved about the chromosomes. In addition to the previous mentioned random mutations.

This is where variation comes from.

As for how a yak for instance can have thinker fur in the cold; that has to do with the process of selection.
Let's say we have three baby yaks which are born in the period where their habitat is starting too cool with fair rapidity; one with a mutation causing their fur to be thicker or longer, another with less fur due to a mutation and another who contains no fur-altering mutations; same fur as every other yak.
The temperature in the scenario acts as a selective pressure; it leads traits which counter or alleviate its affects to be selected as the bearers of the traits live.
Odds are, the yak with the mutation resulting in less fur will die due to exposure and not pass on his/her mutation; it has been selected against.
The yak with longer or thicker hair will be selected for; odds are he will live to a ripe old yak-age and leave a decent amount of progeny likely to bear this mutation also, due to his fur giving him better ability to tolerate the increasing cold and increasing the amount of kids he can have as a result as others die off.
The yak with no mutation... She can go either way; she most likely will not be selected against as she has the protection the less-fur yak lacked, but she does not have any special advantage like more-fur yak.
Over generations as the climate gets colder, those yaks with more fur are continually selected, increasing the proportion of the population of yaks with the trait; eventually it will overtake the entire or at least majority of the population.

In another post, I used polar bears; the bears which had mutations leading to clear or lighter fur (yes, their fur is clear, not white) had an advantage as they were more able to blend with their environment and thereby hunted more effectively, giving them greater chance of living and reproducing, thus spreading the mutation.


I hope that this post has been remotely helpful.

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