Evolution permits anything!
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10-02-2015, 11:50 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
Quote:As far as I can tell, this guy sees evolution and subjective morality as subsets of atheism, or something.

I can see him making this connection, he probably see's evolution as a tool Satan uses to bring people away from God or something. But if that's the case, then why would millions of Christians still accept evolution?


Quote:Or, he doesn't understand the origins of morality as well as he likes to pretend he does. This is what happens when you start stacking presupposition on top of presupposition.

He doesn't understand the origin of morality and stated clearly that he thinks God gives us morals. What really bothers me about this particular person is he is actually really intelligent and very educated, but indoctrination has gotten a hold of him from a young age, which blocks him from even asking the questions that go against his beliefs that he was commanded to have. It's truly unfortunate and I'm hoping he'll be able to get out of that state.
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10-02-2015, 12:40 PM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(09-02-2015 11:14 AM)The Hidden Atheist Wrote:  ...
I want your guy's opinion on this.
...

I don't have a guy.

Huh

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10-02-2015, 12:51 PM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(10-02-2015 12:40 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(09-02-2015 11:14 AM)The Hidden Atheist Wrote:  ...
I want your guy's opinion on this.
...

I don't have a guy.

Huh

I'm pretty sure he means "youse guys's". Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-02-2015, 01:08 PM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
It appears to me you would have to piece by piece deconstruct his indoctrination.

Do you believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God?
Do you believe that Jesus came to uphold the OT?
Do you agree that slavery is moral?
Do you agree killing your child for disobedience is moral?

Etc.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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10-02-2015, 01:18 PM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
Ok well first off, evolution does not permit anything. I doubt humans will evolve to shoot rockets out of their hands. The only thing evolution can do is help us adjust to our environment. If you ask me evolution helped with morality. It gave us minds to think for ourselves, to tell ourselves what is right and wrong. If it were not for evolution we would still be stuck in a species that didn't understand killing was wrong and I'm sure we would have made ourselves extinct a long time ago.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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10-02-2015, 02:42 PM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(10-02-2015 11:50 AM)The Hidden Atheist Wrote:  What really bothers me about this particular person is he is actually really intelligent and very educated, but indoctrination has gotten a hold of him from a young age, which blocks him from even asking the questions that go against his beliefs that he was commanded to have. It's truly unfortunate and I'm hoping he'll be able to get out of that state.

It's called compartmentalization, and I don't have high hopes in you getting him out of it, at least not on a short time line. People set up those barriers precisely because they want to believe some otherwise unbelievable things. He'll stop believing it if and only if his religious beliefs bring him less comfort than the discomfort the cognitive dissonance causes him.

Short story is that's what happened to me. I said some profoundly stupid things that were similar to what he said back when he was in college because I was trying to reconcile an incoherent world view. It took about five years before the doubts really started to set in, and another two years on top of that before I could let go of my faith. Those two years were particularly troubling for me.
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10-02-2015, 02:56 PM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(09-02-2015 11:14 AM)The Hidden Atheist Wrote:  I've recently encountered the argument of if evolution is true, then it makes anything permissible. Here is the exact thing this person said – “The moral consequences are horrifying”

It makes no sense but it may be worth taking a different tack. Evolution describes how we got to where we are and even if it does operate by immoral principles (although amoral would be a better fit) that doesn't mean that we are condemned to continue to operate by those principles. We can, and should, do better.

Sometimes it seems to me like theists are so locked into the authoritarian mindset that they can't see anything else. They start with "god handed down morals so we MUST follow those rules" and then assume that atheists believe a corresponding "evolution handed down morals so we MUST follow those rules". Even if it were true that evolution defined a set of morals (e.g. the frequently misunderstood "survival of the fittest"), so what? We are free to look at that and decide that we don't want to live that way.

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10-02-2015, 03:43 PM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(10-02-2015 01:18 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Ok well first off, evolution does not permit anything. I doubt humans will evolve to shoot rockets out of their hands. The only thing evolution can do is help us adjust to our environment.
If adjust to the environment means sculpting a gene pool that produces a single-cell organism into multiple gene pools that produce elephants, cockatiels, komodo lizards, oak trees, toadstools, bees, MRSA, and so on, OK.
Quote:If you ask me evolution helped with morality. It gave us minds to think for ourselves, to tell ourselves what is right and wrong. If it were not for evolution we would still be stuck in a species that didn't understand killing was wrong and I'm sure we would have made ourselves extinct a long time ago.
OK, sounds legit.
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10-02-2015, 03:58 PM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
Gross science.

The thread name made me think of this lovely creature and its adaptation of eating fish tongues. First time I saw one I involuntarily dropped the fish I had caught and let out a “what the fuck!”

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/nature/tong...asite.html

What nightmares are made of BUT all part of God’s plan Yes along with cancer and whatever horrible disease you can think of.




“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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10-02-2015, 04:12 PM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(10-02-2015 03:43 PM)Rik Wrote:  
(10-02-2015 01:18 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Ok well first off, evolution does not permit anything. I doubt humans will evolve to shoot rockets out of their hands. The only thing evolution can do is help us adjust to our environment.
If adjust to the environment means sculpting a gene pool that produces a single-cell organism into multiple gene pools that produce elephants, cockatiels, komodo lizards, oak trees, toadstools, bees, MRSA, and so on, OK.
Quote:If you ask me evolution helped with morality. It gave us minds to think for ourselves, to tell ourselves what is right and wrong. If it were not for evolution we would still be stuck in a species that didn't understand killing was wrong and I'm sure we would have made ourselves extinct a long time ago.
OK, sounds legit.

Do you know why we can breath oxygen? Because we evolved to live out of water. Do you know why we have legs? To help traverse the land. Do you know why we have eyes? To help see things. Yes it's split and there are many branches like a tree but everything doesn't evolve in the same way. Creatures who live in the sea evolve and gain traits that help them in the sea. Giraffes have long necks because they evolved to be able to reach leaves in trees. Also of course it sounds legit. If we couldn't think, we wouldn't know killing someone was bad and we would just go around killing people.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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