Evolution permits anything!
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18-03-2015, 12:35 PM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(09-02-2015 11:17 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  First, gather up a list of relevant Bible quotes that show how we do not derive our morality from Yahweh. Then ask him why we are more moral than the source of our morality.

When he says "that was a different time," remind him that his entire argument rests on morality being absolute and unchanging.

It won't do the trick, but at least it will leave HIM as the one without a good answer to your question.

In practical terms, if God is moral, then God's law must be moral. But God's law is not moral. Therefore...

Also, tell him that morality, love, and ethics are the result of evolution.


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19-03-2015, 04:57 PM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(14-03-2015 07:20 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  ...and go in a lab and demonstrate how inanimate matter can come from nonlife.

Lolz, what an idiot.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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19-03-2015, 07:51 PM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
I leave for a few days and this is what happens.

‘Call_of_the_Wild’ pid=‘749743’ dateline=‘1426382402’ Wrote:
(14-03-2015 06:33 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  He is actually totally wrong.

There is no objective morality, and most especially NOT in the Bible.

Ok, so if you and your daughter went to visit a foreign land, and someone raped your daughter while you were there, if raping was permitted by the land’s government, then the rapists didn’t really do anything wrong, no matter how pissed you are about what happened...gotcha Thumbsup

Yup.

You and your son go to Papua New Guinea on an adventure and are captured by the Korowai tribe. You become the main dish and your son is the appetizer for a ceremony. So yeah, in my example no one has done anything wrong either.

‘Call_of_the_Wild’ pid=‘749743’ dateline=‘1426382402’ Wrote:
(14-03-2015 06:33 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Show us proof of “divine intervention” anywhere at anytime (and don’t go trying to slip the burden of proof, you’re making the claim).

Show me proof of a reptile-bird transformation, and go in a lab and demonstrate how inanimate matter can come from nonlife. These are naturalistic claims which should be described by natural law...so, do it.

Don’t sidestep the fucking challenge. So where is the proof? Sticking a gawdidit isn’t proof of anything except your inability to provide proof of “divine intervention”. Proof, where is it?

Evolution has been proven and we see it happening in real time, that you still have problems with it doesn’t make it any less true.

As for abiogenesis we hear this all the time “Scientists can't explain the origin of life, therefore it must have been God and specifically the God I believe in."

We’ve just started exploring the possibilities, after all, Earth was around for 1.5 billion years before life showed up, we just started tinkering. If you’d rather believe in fairy tales to fill the gap to all of humankind’s as yet unanswered questions who am I to stop you?

BTW are you getting ready for the Easter Bunny yet? Laughat

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“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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22-03-2015, 02:35 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(19-03-2015 04:57 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(14-03-2015 07:20 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  ...and go in a lab and demonstrate how inanimate matter can come from nonlife.

Lolz, what an idiot.

Shit happens
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22-03-2015, 02:47 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(19-03-2015 07:51 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Yup.

You and your son go to Papua New Guinea on an adventure and are captured by the Korowai tribe. You become the main dish and your son is the appetizer for a ceremony. So yeah, in my example no one has done anything wrong either.

So quick to go on the offense that the point was completely missed Dodgy

(19-03-2015 07:51 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Don’t sidestep the fucking challenge. So where is the proof? Sticking a gawdidit isn’t proof of anything except your inability to provide proof of “divine intervention”. Proof, where is it?

Sorry, Charlie. Where is the proof that naturedidit? Consider

(19-03-2015 07:51 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Evolution has been proven and we see it happening in real time, that you still have problems with it doesn’t make it any less true.

I've never seen a reptile change suddenly or gradually into a bird. Guess what, neither have you Laugh out load

(19-03-2015 07:51 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  As for abiogenesis we hear this all the time “Scientists can't explain the origin of life, therefore it must have been God and specifically the God I believe in."

And we've also heard "any explanation, no matter how absurd or bizarre, is better than gawdidit"...we've heard that one all of the time, too.

(19-03-2015 07:51 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  We’ve just started exploring the possibilities, after all, Earth was around for 1.5 billion years before life showed up, we just started tinkering. If you’d rather believe in fairy tales to fill the gap to all of humankind’s as yet unanswered questions who am I to stop you?

So basically, you are saying that you believe earth was around for 1.5 billion years, with inanimate (nonliving matter) occupying it, then suddenly/gradually...this matter CAME to life!!! Not only did it come to life, but it began talking, thinking, laughing, seeing, hearing, etc.

If you want to believe that, who am I to stop you?

(19-03-2015 07:51 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  BTW are you getting ready for the Easter Bunny yet? Laughat

I am getting ready for Resurrection day. Jesus did rise on the third day, yanno Smile
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22-03-2015, 02:55 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(17-03-2015 02:30 PM)Rik Wrote:  
(14-03-2015 04:02 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  He is actually right. If evolution is true without divine intervention (which is impossible, but for arguments sake), then you can throw objective morality right out of the window, and if that is the case, then nothing really matters.

Prove it. Seriously, what is your evidence?

Because if evolution without God is true, then mental states are the effect of physical states, but if the argument from consciousness is true (which it is), then this cannot be the case.

But even without the argument from consciousness, evolution cannot be a brute fact like naturalists would like it to be...because of the abiogenesis problem.
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22-03-2015, 03:01 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
The "abiogenesis problem" is just a figment of your imagination.

Like angels, zombies, miracles and the whole "god" thingie.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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22-03-2015, 03:07 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(18-03-2015 05:38 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Of course not, but that doesn't stop moral absolutists from saying things like "if morality were subjective, what's to stop people from changing their mind and saying X is okay?". It implies

1) objective morality somehow offers some sense of consistency (hint: it doesn't. What's to stop God from changing his mind about X being okay?), and

2) if people changed their mind about X, X would start happening, yet X already does happen.

You've lost me here, Robby.

(18-03-2015 05:38 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Define hope. Christianity posits that no less than 2/3 of all people will suffer for eternity. Seems like a net loss compared to oblivion.

Accept Jesus and you won't have to worry about any of that, now would you? If you are among 100 people kidnapped by ISIS and you all are told that anyone under 6'0 tall will be executed, and everyone over 6'0 will be spared and can go home...and your actual height is 6'5, you don't have to worry about anything, would you??

Same thing.

(18-03-2015 05:38 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I don't see any evidence that they do, so no, I don't believe in objective morality.

Ok, so judging God by your subjective standards seems quite...subjective.
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22-03-2015, 03:08 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(22-03-2015 03:01 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The "abiogenesis problem" is just a figment of your imagination.

Like angels, zombies, miracles and the whole "god" thingie.

Reptiles changing into birds is a figment of your imagination, too.
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22-03-2015, 03:15 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
Your problem is the inability to accept the scale of time.

The Grand Canyon wasn't "created" the way it is -- water eroded it over millions of years.

The same is true of evolution- it doesn't take place in a time scale that you can deal with - so, you make up a creator to "handle the problem".

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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