Evolution permits anything!
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22-03-2015, 03:23 AM (This post was last modified: 22-03-2015 04:15 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(22-03-2015 03:08 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(22-03-2015 03:01 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The "abiogenesis problem" is just a figment of your imagination.

Like angels, zombies, miracles and the whole "god" thingie.

Reptiles changing into birds is a figment of your imagination, too.


Your complete lack of understanding or inability to use your imagination is not a sufficient argument against demonstrably objective facts, you ignorant wanker.

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22-03-2015, 04:40 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(22-03-2015 03:08 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(22-03-2015 03:01 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The "abiogenesis problem" is just a figment of your imagination.

Like angels, zombies, miracles and the whole "god" thingie.

Reptiles changing into birds is a figment of your imagination, too.

This might help clear up some doubts. More than one view might be necessary. I understood a lot of stuff but it gets complicated fast (the phylogenetic tree is reaaaaaally complex).




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22-03-2015, 11:06 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(09-02-2015 11:14 AM)The Hidden Atheist Wrote:  I've recently encountered the argument of if evolution is true, then it makes anything permissible. Here is the exact thing this person said – “The moral consequences are horrifying” He went on to say that basically nothing matters if evolution is true, everything is allowed, life is meaningless, etc... I went on to ask why those that accept evolutionary theory aren't out killing people and living meaningless, pointless lives. Since he is a Christian, he “explained” that we all have a moral code on our heart, without demonstrating this of course... What I want to know is what could have I said? I feel like we just rambled on on a bunch of baseless stuff which lasted well over 40 minutes. I asked him what it would take for him to accept evolutionary theory, hoping that maybe I may provide some evidence that would lean him toward giving evolution another thought, but instead he said something rather interesting. Here's basically what he said “A couple things probably would go down, either I would use the rest of my life trying to prove it was wrong, or I would become psychotic.” I didn't know how the fuck I could have responded to this. Before this he said that his “experience” showed him that evolution will never be demonstrated to have happened.

We fizzled out of the conversation, but I want your guy's opinion on this. Is it to late for him to actually reason? Or do you think that I could have said something that may lead him away from, in my opinion, a rather over exaggeration of what he thinks would happen if it were demonstrated to him to be true. Should I present the evidence? Will giving him the evidence even do anything? I've read “A Manual for Creating Atheist” and like the author said (I think, it's been a while) that evidence probably won't work for people that approach the truth using faith, and I'm assuming that evidence, for this person, won't change anything. I expect to have this conversation again with him, so I'd like a more thought out response, and something that I may be able to use to sway him from his misunderstanding. Let me know if this is an argument you've heard before, be that similar, or more off the rails, hell, maybe you agree with him. But it would be awesome if you guys can let me know what I could do. Thanks!

Common mistake, shit happens. There is no scientific proof for what that guy was trying to claim. And remember in science a theory has a lot of evidence. What people usually think of when they hear theory is a "hypothesis". Now if we look at it, the hypothesis of God has a insufficient track record.

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22-03-2015, 11:12 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(18-03-2015 12:35 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  
(09-02-2015 11:17 AM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  First, gather up a list of relevant Bible quotes that show how we do not derive our morality from Yahweh. Then ask him why we are more moral than the source of our morality.

When he says "that was a different time," remind him that his entire argument rests on morality being absolute and unchanging.

It won't do the trick, but at least it will leave HIM as the one without a good answer to your question.

In practical terms, if God is moral, then God's law must be moral. But God's law is not moral. Therefore...

Also, tell him that morality, love, and ethics are the result of evolution.

Gents I have come to the conclusion that religion is important for survival. But religion has only been existing for about 34000 years (http://www.prweb.com/releases/2011/5/prweb8364968.htm), not enough time to prove evolutionary successful. I guess we'll have to see what the future holds...
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24-03-2015, 08:28 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(22-03-2015 11:12 AM)Its Not The End O fThe World Wrote:  Gents I have come to the conclusion that religion is important for survival. But religion has only been existing for about 34000 years (http://www.prweb.com/releases/2011/5/prweb8364968.htm), not enough time to prove evolutionary successful. I guess we'll have to see what the future holds...

Also the god-belief portion of the religion may not be the portion of the religious belief that bestows an evolutionary advantage. Perhaps it is the cooperative ability of individuals acting as part of a state that bestows the advantage. I think religions were the first states - you could go anywhere in the Christian or Muslim world respectively and could participate in the local society. There would be that basic trust and shared set of conventions in place. The same is true of Visa and Mastercard today. That is to say, I think religion disappearing would now not be an evolutionary stumbling block for the human species.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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24-03-2015, 09:10 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(24-03-2015 08:28 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  
(22-03-2015 11:12 AM)Its Not The End O fThe World Wrote:  Gents I have come to the conclusion that religion is important for survival. But religion has only been existing for about 34000 years (http://www.prweb.com/releases/2011/5/prweb8364968.htm), not enough time to prove evolutionary successful. I guess we'll have to see what the future holds...

Also the god-belief portion of the religion may not be the portion of the religious belief that bestows an evolutionary advantage. Perhaps it is the cooperative ability of individuals acting as part of a state that bestows the advantage. I think religions were the first states - you could go anywhere in the Christian or Muslim world respectively and could participate in the local society. There would be that basic trust and shared set of conventions in place. The same is true of Visa and Mastercard today. That is to say, I think religion disappearing would now not be an evolutionary stumbling block for the human species.

Losing it could well be an evolutionary advantage.
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25-03-2015, 04:56 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
Do you know what i find hilariously ironic?

The creationists are so damn fastend on saying that dinosaurs and evolution is so "fantastic it cant be true" while they hold on to their talking snakes, talking burning bushes, angels, demons and that they were made in a gods image. Dont even go with "its a metaphor" explaination, because that would just argue against your own beliefs a thousand times over.

What we have here is creationists that dont even *know* what evolution actually is in the first place, all i have seen of the arguments points towards that they think evolution is a anti-christian or anti-religion "religion". And now they come to demand to see the "bible" of evolution that explains everything about everything.
Sorry to say: no relevant nor realistic information is from a single source, and already there religion have only a book written by flawed beings.

So if you really want to have questions answered, ask the question to the right science. Want the "material to life" question answered, well you have to wait until the biochemists actually figure it out (they are getting close). Want to know how life came to the planet?...well we dont know either and neither does evolution... and neither do you.
Are the religious really so scared of saying "we dont know" that they credit it all to whatever deity that might hold on to?
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25-03-2015, 06:40 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(25-03-2015 04:56 AM)Dracoknight Wrote:  Are the religious really so scared of saying "we dont know" that they credit it all to whatever deity that might hold on to?

Yes, I thought that was a given.
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25-03-2015, 06:42 AM (This post was last modified: 25-03-2015 06:52 AM by NoSkyDaddy.)
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(22-03-2015 11:06 AM)Its Not The End O fThe World Wrote:  What people usually think of when they hear theory is a "hypothesis".

Not even. In science, a hypothesis is still a predictive, falsifiable scientific model built using known data. It just has not been rigorously tested and verified.
What people usually mean is a "hunch", or "I reached up my rectum and pulled out some words."

You can lead a theist to reason, but, you cannot make him think.
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04-05-2015, 07:53 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
I get such a kick out of listening to theists defend their religion. First, there is no convincing them. The only we they will come to the realization is where the have finally had a revelation that their faith is a delusion. Secondly, evolution does not permit anything. Evolution is more than survival of the fittest. Survival of the fittest doesn't mean the strongest survives, it means that the ones who have the characteristics essential for survival in a region will survive. Cockroaches would survive a nuclear fall out thus making then the fittest. Evolution uses natural selection as the foundation on how something can evolve. Evolution doesn't give moral code, it allows organisms to evolve into higher thinking beings that can develop and understand morals using their brain. God does not have to exist for things to evolve, that is why they reject it. If you accept evolution you are accepting the big bang because the bbt uses evolution to show how after the bang k feel was created. Just a quick note, do not let a theist dictate your beliefs. They believe in a religion founded by a 75 year old desert scribe who claimed to have kids at 100, and a slave who claimed his mother was a Virgin and he was the son of god without any substantial proof other than quoting scripture. Christianity is the most outlandish religion versus the major religious of the world, it is sad they draw so many converts.
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