Evolution permits anything!
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04-05-2015, 08:20 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(04-05-2015 07:53 AM)Anichols0063 Wrote:  If you accept evolution you are accepting the big bang because the bbt uses evolution to show how after the bang k feel was created.

While I pretty much agree with most of what you posted, I disagree that accepting evolution means accepting big bang. Neither the big bang nor evolution requires the other and conflating them just confuses the discussion in my opinion.

For the record, I'm not denying either as I accept them both as the best explanations we have for what we see. I just think that when talking with theists it is best to deal with them as answers to different questions.

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04-05-2015, 09:24 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(04-05-2015 07:53 AM)Anichols0063 Wrote:  I get such a kick out of listening to theists defend their religion. First, there is no convincing them. The only we they will come to the realization is where the have finally had a revelation that their faith is a delusion. Secondly, evolution does not permit anything. Evolution is more than survival of the fittest. Survival of the fittest doesn't mean the strongest survives, it means that the ones who have the characteristics essential for survival in a region will survive. Cockroaches would survive a nuclear fall out thus making then the fittest. Evolution uses natural selection as the foundation on how something can evolve. Evolution doesn't give moral code, it allows organisms to evolve into higher thinking beings that can develop and understand morals using their brain. God does not have to exist for things to evolve, that is why they reject it. If you accept evolution you are accepting the big bang because the bbt uses evolution to show how after the bang k feel was created. Just a quick note, do not let a theist dictate your beliefs. They believe in a religion founded by a 75 year old desert scribe who claimed to have kids at 100, and a slave who claimed his mother was a Virgin and he was the son of god without any substantial proof other than quoting scripture. Christianity is the most outlandish religion versus the major religious of the world, it is sad they draw so many converts.

Accepting evolution does not mean accepting BB.

And why is Christianity most outlandish? Nor Islam nor old Norse religions are better in this regard, or maybe I should say it like that - Christianity isn't smart but no other religion is. They're not about logic.

As for slave. You mean Jesus? If he really existed we don't really know what he claimed as gospels were written some time after his death.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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04-05-2015, 09:42 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
The unproven theory of evolution has always been thrust against religion. Why? Evolution should be tested, and proven true, or un-true based on what can be proven. If bones of something were found, would they be tested against religion, or what could be proven of them?
I do not believe for, or against evolution by testing it against religion. I am a Christian, and believe in the Bible. I do not believe any religion is true, or from God because as a Christian, I have tested religions, and they are easy to prove false. Any atheist worth his/her salt can prove religions false. So why would anybody who knows religions are false, test anything against them?
Test evolution with an open mind. Atheist are people seeking truth. If evolution is not true, and atheist would not support it. If it is true they would support it. I believe in science, Archeology, and the bible. I treat the three as one. Try this, Examine evolution with the ad of science, and archeology. Don't try to prove it true, or un-true...try to uncover the truth. Atheist are not stupid people. they don't care what the truth is...but it is truth they seek, whatever it is.
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04-05-2015, 10:10 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
Hello! Big Grin

Welcome to the forum. Smile

(04-05-2015 09:42 AM)Domenic Wrote:  The unproven theory of evolution has always been thrust against religion. Why? Evolution should be tested, and proven true, or un-true based on what can be proven. If bones of something were found, would they be tested against religion, or what could be proven of them?
I do not believe for, or against evolution by testing it against religion. I am a Christian, and believe in the Bible. I do not believe any religion is true, or from God because as a Christian, I have tested religions, and they are easy to prove false. Any atheist worth his/her salt can prove religions false. So why would anybody who knows religions are false, test anything against them?
Test evolution with an open mind. Atheist are people seeking truth. If evolution is not true, and atheist would not support it. If it is true they would support it. I believe in science, Archeology, and the bible. I treat the three as one. Try this, Examine evolution with the ad of science, and archeology. Don't try to prove it true, or un-true...try to uncover the truth. Atheist are not stupid people. they don't care what the truth is...but it is truth they seek, whatever it is.

Woah... That's, a big post.

Might you like to, perhaps, break the ideas down and maybe post them more one at a time kind of thing?

Okay, so you do not like/agree with/accept evolution.

Might you want to start there and explain why you think the 150 years of science is some how wrong?

Much cheers to all.
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04-05-2015, 10:39 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
Evolution is a biological process, it's completely amoral. Unless we want to argue, as many have, that a species developing a common morality is in itself an advantage to the species' long term survival. Evolution doesn't "permit" anything, it's just the process of nature righting itself. Those traits which create an advantage (like reason and logic) are able to survive. Those traits which provide no advantage (like religion) inevitably either disappear or lead to the failure of the species.
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04-05-2015, 10:46 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(04-05-2015 10:39 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  Evolution is a biological process, it's completely amoral. Unless we want to argue, as many have, that a species developing a common morality is in itself an advantage to the species' long term survival. Evolution doesn't "permit" anything, it's just the process of nature righting itself. Those traits which create an advantage (like reason and logic) are able to survive. Those traits which provide no advantage (like religion) inevitably either disappear or lead to the failure of the species.

Well, one could say that evolution make creator god obsolete, so evolution=lack of god. And if there is no god then, like Dostoyevsky supposedly said everything is permitted.

One should not expect too much logic from some believers.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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04-05-2015, 10:52 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
What gets me about Theists, and Christians especially, and their view of evolution is they look at it through the lens of their own belief in an omnipotent creator which has consciousness and a will. Thus they can't help but think of evolution, which they falsely deem as our equivalent to their god(s), as also having consciousness and a will - making DECISIONS about which animals flourish and which die out, etc. Thus you get the inappropriate personification of the process of evolution - it decides this, it permits that, etc.
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04-05-2015, 10:58 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(04-05-2015 10:52 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  What gets me about Theists, and Christians especially, and their view of evolution is they look at it through the lens of their own belief in an omnipotent creator which has consciousness and a will. Thus they can't help but think of evolution, which they falsely deem as our equivalent to their god(s), as also having consciousness and a will - making DECISIONS about which animals flourish and which die out, etc. Thus you get the inappropriate personification of the process of evolution - it decides this, it permits that, etc.

As long as this isn't somehow harmful then I don't see the problem. Let them believe, it is not as one could change other beliefs if said other sticks to them and find comfort in his way of thinking.

Only action that I think should be taken is making sure that schools aren't used for religious indoctrination and what is taught in them is scientifically accurate.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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04-05-2015, 11:15 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(04-05-2015 10:58 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Only action that I think should be taken is making sure that schools aren't used for religious indoctrination and what is taught in them is scientifically accurate.

That's about the only time I take issue with the misguided belief in evolution as a conscious entity - when they think their own personal Creator deserves equal time in Biology classrooms due to this false equivalency.
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04-05-2015, 11:21 AM
RE: Evolution permits anything!
(04-05-2015 11:15 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  
(04-05-2015 10:58 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Only action that I think should be taken is making sure that schools aren't used for religious indoctrination and what is taught in them is scientifically accurate.

That's about the only time I take issue with the misguided belief in evolution as a conscious entity - when they think their own personal Creator deserves equal time in Biology classrooms due to this false equivalency.

Aren't schools in USA free from such nonsense?

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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