Evolution revisited
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15-10-2013, 08:08 AM
RE: Evolution revisited
Not according to his god you damn dirty heathen!

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15-10-2013, 08:25 AM
RE: Evolution revisited
(15-10-2013 05:48 AM)bustead Wrote:  The first section of the chapter is Miller–Urey experiment, he said that Miller–Urey experiment on life's origin is inaccurate as the composition of gas used by Miller is not the same with the Earth's early atmosphere.

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB035.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB035_1.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB035_2.html

Quote:Besides optical isomers of amino acids are formed. However only one of the optical isomers is used in living organisms nowadays and the other one is not found in living organism.

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB040.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB025.html

Quote:This means that Miller–Urey experiment does not really show the origins of live.

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB050.html

Quote:Then, he said something about mold appears later in fossil records but is simpler than plants.

http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=518

Quote:Therefore evolution is (in his view) unreliable.

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB090.html

Quote:What should i say to him?

Nothing. Just educate yourself and pass the exam. If he continues to talk shit during lesson time then skip the classes and go the library and use that time to read for the exam.
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15-10-2013, 12:29 PM
RE: Evolution revisited
(15-10-2013 05:48 AM)bustead Wrote:  Then, he said something about mold appears later in fossil records but is simpler than plants. Therefore evolution is (in his view) unreliable.
What should i say to him?

Snarky version: Tell him to get his penis opinions out of the classroom and keep his penis opinions to himself in private.

Serious version: Either do nothing (which is less likely to get you in trouble), or spend some time honestly researching the subject to be able to refute what he is saying (a lot more work, but hey, you'll learn something!).


(15-10-2013 06:26 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  That the miller-Urey experiment is abiogenesis, not evolution? Evolution is about the diversity of life, not its origin.

This frequently happens in conversations with creationists when talking about the big bang, abiogenesis, or evolution. They will frequently jump from one topic to the next when the original discussion was only about one, because in their mind, they are all the same thing: not creationism.
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15-10-2013, 12:43 PM
RE: Evolution revisited
Ask him how old the universe is, then enjoy the laughter from the rest of the students when he gives his answer.
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15-10-2013, 03:14 PM (This post was last modified: 16-10-2013 02:32 AM by Free Thought.)
RE: Evolution revisited
(15-10-2013 05:48 AM)bustead Wrote:  My biology teacher is a christian but as our public exam covers evolution, he (reluctantly) teaches evolution. The first section of the chapter is Miller–Urey experiment, he said that Miller–Urey experiment on life's origin is inaccurate as the composition of gas used by Miller is not the same with the Earth's early atmosphere. Besides optical isomers of amino acids are formed. However only one of the optical isomers is used in living organisms nowadays and the other one is not found in living organism. This means that Miller–Urey experiment does not really show the origins of live.
Then, he said something about mold appears later in fossil records but is simpler than plants. Therefore evolution is (in his view) unreliable.
What should i say to him?

My biology teacher is a Muslim and has stated that he does not accept evolution despite being educated at least in the art/science of Taxonomy. fortunately for me however, he (slightly begrudgingly) teaches natural selection and related evolutionary mechanisms in relation to evolution when it comes time... Then again he was educated in a Muslim university in India, so his education was likely a little warped...
But I digress.

My suggest as to what to say? "You, Sir, are full of shit."

"The Urey-Miller experiment showed that amino acids, the main components for self-replicating RNA and DNA can form naturally, also as we already knew, they could bind with pentrose sugars with phosphates. it is logical to assume that in an environment full of the components that self-replicating molecules may have formed naturally as understood in chemistry.
In addition, evolution does not dictate that all evolving organisms must be successively more complex; merely that they adapt to their surrounding enough to pass their genes; primitive moulds and conifer trees (example) can exist at the same time as there is no real hierarchy; things don't go Moulds -> bushes -> trees or whatever, the fact that moulds existed and trees existed shows only that trees and moulds existed at the time of their fossilisation, this does not make evolution unreliable and is not even a tangible threat to it: Decades of genetic, paleontological, taxonomic and phylogenetic research, backed by already and newly established 'knowns' about how the universe, its age and that of the Earth can't be overthrown because you can't grasp that simple and complex things like plants and fungi lived long ago just as they do now, albeit in likely slightly different forms."

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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15-10-2013, 03:25 PM
RE: Evolution revisited
(15-10-2013 07:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Just point to the door and tell him to get out.

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15-10-2013, 03:55 PM
RE: Evolution revisited
(15-10-2013 05:48 AM)bustead Wrote:  My biology teacher is a christian but as our public exam covers evolution, he (reluctantly) teaches evolution. The first section of the chapter is Miller–Urey experiment, he said that Miller–Urey experiment on life's origin is inaccurate as the composition of gas used by Miller is not the same with the Earth's early atmosphere. Besides optical isomers of amino acids are formed. However only one of the optical isomers is used in living organisms nowadays and the other one is not found in living organism. This means that Miller–Urey experiment does not really show the origins of live.
Then, he said something about mold appears later in fossil records but is simpler than plants. Therefore evolution is (in his view) unreliable.
What should i say to him?


Your bio says you are not living in the US. Which country then? Kitzmiller v Dover mentioned upthread is a US court case that addresses recent attempts to introduce 'intelligent design' into the curriculum, but that case wouldn't mean much outside the US. My advise would depend on what you want for the outcome.

Are you trying to make this kind of behavior from your teacher unlawful? Getting your teacher to stop this behavior may depend on the laws in your area.

Are you trying to find arguments to debate your teacher and convince them they are wrong? Is that an ok thing to do in your school? Would you get in trouble? I assume not since your school has to give a 'public test' that covers evolution. But keep in mind teachers have biases, and some teachers may not be big on being challenged in class.

Or do you just want the real facts so your education does not suffer as a result of religion being introduced into Science class? The library, reading more from the text if it is a good text book that covers evolution properly, and online resources may all be appropriate.
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15-10-2013, 04:19 PM
RE: Evolution revisited
(15-10-2013 03:55 PM)BryanS Wrote:  ...and some teachers may not be big on being challenged in class.
Teachers may resist with gusto if challenged in front of the class because they need to be respected with regards to the information they are teaching in order to perform their job.

It would probably be best to have a private conversation with him.

Maybe tell him that you respect that he has religious beliefs pertaining to the origin of life and species, but that you have come to class to learn the scientific narrative of origin of life and species rather than the religious narrative.

That if you are interested in the religious narrative then you will attend church to learn what they have to say about the subject. But science class is with regards to the generally accepted natural explanation as per the scientific method. Whether this is the Truth or not is beside the point, that the exam will test you on your understanding of natural explanations only and that it is his job to prepare you for the exam.
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15-10-2013, 10:28 PM
RE: Evolution revisited
Quote: some teachers may not be big on being challenged in class.

Too fucking bad, that's there problem not his.
His education is quite frankly more important than some douche bag's pride.

Quote:Teachers may resist with gusto if challenged in front of the class because they need to be respected with regards to the information they are teaching in order to perform their job.

What a load of shit.
I understand where you're coming from BUT should students not be taught and encouraged to question things?
If something is wrong or doesn't sound right or is questionable, than students SHOULD question things and should be encouraged to do so.
What kind of society are we going to have in the future if all that people do is to do as their told. That's not innovation and progress are achieved.



Fuck the teachers. They do not get special privileges because they're teachers. If they are teaching bullshit they should be called up on it. It's that simple.

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15-10-2013, 11:57 PM
RE: Evolution revisited
(15-10-2013 10:28 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:Teachers may resist with gusto if challenged in front of the class because they need to be respected with regards to the information they are teaching in order to perform their job.

What a load of shit.
I understand where you're coming from BUT should students not be taught and encouraged to question things?
If something is wrong or doesn't sound right or is questionable, than students SHOULD question things and should be encouraged to do so.
What kind of society are we going to have in the future if all that people do is to do as their told. That's not innovation and progress are achieved.



Fuck the teachers. They do not get special privileges because they're teachers. If they are teaching bullshit they should be called up on it. It's that simple.
I just feel that if you publicly shame people then it won't end well for either of you. There are some things that are better discussed in private otherwise you may meet strong resistance and you would then be unlikely to get what you want.
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