Evolution's starting point
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03-11-2011, 05:17 PM
RE: Evolution's starting point
Denico
A fellow Tennessean! I don't currently live in Tennessee but I certainly understand your frustration with intelligent people making leaps and bounds to hold on to a set of irrational beliefs that are bounded by rational thought. Like, the moon is smaller than the Earth, is very far away and is made of cheese. I don't know anyone who actually believes that but it is very similar to; the Earth is 4.65 billion years old, evolution explains the diversity of life through time and god made it all. We have evidence for the first 2 statements in each sentence to be true but the irrational 3rd statements are either based on absolutely no evidence or a misunderstanding of what exactly the astronauts brought back from the moon (it wasn't Gouda).

Is this place still a shithole run by a dumbass calvinist?
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03-11-2011, 06:46 PM
RE: Evolution's starting point
(03-11-2011 01:26 PM)Denicio Wrote:  Why anyone bothers explaining anything to this chap is beyond me. For as nicely put as we can put evolution in plain english...these types still hold on to a Creationist God..an Intelligent Designer so to speak.

Great post! Yes, I'm with you. I can't be bothered debating with creationists or even believers in Yahweh and his imagined son any more. If they want to continue to believe the nonsense in the face of evidence weighted against their beliefs, then that is their prerogative, I suppose. Very blinkered!

"To think of what the world has suffered from superstition, from religion, from the worship of beast and stone and god, is
almost enough to make one insane."

Robert G. Ingersoll
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04-11-2011, 05:20 AM
RE: Evolution's starting point
@houseofcantor

Thank you for necroing a 9 month old troll topic, if ONLY mods would do something about shit like this...

"We Humans are capable of greatness." -Carl Sagan
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04-11-2011, 02:30 PM
RE: Evolution's starting point
(04-11-2011 05:20 AM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  @houseofcantor

Thank you for necroing a 9 month old troll topic, if ONLY mods would do something about shit like this...

Hey, fuckwad? Dating on the topic is not American standard. Try to keep up, will ya? You're embarrassing us. Tongue

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08-11-2011, 11:10 AM
RE: Evolution's starting point
(02-11-2011 03:21 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Theos blog where all of his threads are cut from.
http://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/

Thanks for telling others about my blog. Smile

I have modified the post that this thread is based on because your responses showed I didn't do a very good job of expressing what I really wanted to say. Here is a link to it.

http://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2011/11...ing-point/

Quote:But he doesn't answer all of our posts and often only cherry picks points out of them to reply to.

If I tried to answer everything you say my post would be so long no one would take the time to read all of it. I try to cover the main points you have raised.

(03-11-2011 11:48 AM)lucradis Wrote:  Doesn't the belief in god kind of destroy any motivating factor as far as the sciences ate concerned?

That would depend on what kind of God you believed in. The Bible says that God has revealed much about himself through his creation.

Quote:His invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.
Romans 1:20 ESV

God has revealed himself in two ways, through the Bible and through his creation. Anyone who wants to know God will study both of them. Also, there is first command God gave to men, found in Genesis 1:28,

Quote:Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.

Learning about the earth and the living things in it makes it easier to carry out the command to subdue the earth so that is another motivation for studying science.

Quote:Atheism is a lack of belief due to a lack of evidence not in the face of evidence. Thereby an atheist scientist has no doctrine to overcome when examining evidence. Just the evidence.

Everyone, whether he is a theist or an atheist, has some beliefs that he holds and these beliefs will affect how he interprets the evidence he finds.

(03-11-2011 02:21 PM)morondog Wrote:  These arguments are quite interesting though, to me. Maybe I'm just not as jaded. I've never met an honest-to-God creationist before, My best friend is quite dogmatically Christian but he's not a creationist. I want to understand how someone can believe something this crazy.

Here are two good sites that could help you in this.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/

http://scienceagainstevolution.org/

The second site isn't promoting any kind of religious belief. It simply presents scientific evidence that doesn't fit in with the theory of evolution.

God's invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.
Romans 1:20 ESV

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08-11-2011, 02:30 PM
RE: Evolution's starting point
As much as answering all our questions is probably too big a task, please could you just answer the one:

Why do you take the Bible as an authority on evolution?
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09-11-2011, 10:44 AM
RE: Evolution's starting point
(08-11-2011 02:30 PM)morondog Wrote:  As much as answering all our questions is probably too big a task, please could you just answer the one:

Why do you take the Bible as an authority on evolution?

I am not taking it as an authority on evolution. I simply pointed out that scientists who study the subject assume that everything happens by natural means without any kind of divine intervention and as a result they don't even examine the Bible's account to find out whether or not if could be true.

God's invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.
Romans 1:20 ESV

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09-11-2011, 11:10 AM
RE: Evolution's starting point
(09-11-2011 10:44 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(08-11-2011 02:30 PM)morondog Wrote:  As much as answering all our questions is probably too big a task, please could you just answer the one:

Why do you take the Bible as an authority on evolution?

I am not taking it as an authority on evolution. I simply pointed out that scientists who study the subject assume that everything happens by natural means without any kind of divine intervention and as a result they don't even examine the Bible's account to find out whether or not if could be true.

And you assume that there exists a supernatural force despite the fact that there is no evidence to support it.

Is this place still a shithole run by a dumbass calvinist?
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09-11-2011, 11:27 AM
RE: Evolution's starting point
You also assume that this is how all evolutionists operate. I would imagine you're wrong about that Theo. I think you also haven't taken into account that a lot of those evolutionists more than likely started out Christian seeing as how Christians arethe vast majority this is unavoidable. So is it them that has the bias? Them who started out with one batch of information but who chose to learn more and then came to a different conclusion based on actual evidence? Or is the theist creationist who started with this "fact" and never bothered to question it?
I know not all creationists are indoctrinated as children and some actually come to this idea in their adulthood I am just using the majority to point out a flaw in your argument.
Before you try to say (not saying you would try to say it, just covering all the potential bases) that most creationists come to their conclusion based off of the evidence I have to say that is impossible. Period. The only conclusion you can come to based off of evidence or the lack of evidence as far as a god is concerned is that god could exist but unless he's a liar (which if he exists would make him a liar) evolution is true and this is not a young earth.
And even if Satan is real an Satan planted al the misinformation that does not make god less of a liar as he is the one responsible due to his creation of everything including Satan and after all everything is in his plan isn't it? Or is god falliable? If so is god not perfect? If he is not perfect why worship him? If he's not perfect than maybe if he made us it was an accident.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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09-11-2011, 12:23 PM
RE: Evolution's starting point
(09-11-2011 10:44 AM)theophilus Wrote:  
(08-11-2011 02:30 PM)morondog Wrote:  As much as answering all our questions is probably too big a task, please could you just answer the one:

Why do you take the Bible as an authority on evolution?

I am not taking it as an authority on evolution. I simply pointed out that scientists who study the subject assume that everything happens by natural means without any kind of divine intervention and as a result they don't even examine the Bible's account to find out whether or not if could be true.

You are in fact, incorrect. The Bible's account has been exhaustively examined. In the early days of science, especially geology and biology, people used to *start* by assuming that the Bible was correct. Science moved away from these naive explanations because *they conflicted with the evidence*. It was not a happy procedure and caused no small amount of angst - all scientists are, after all, human, and religion is not so easily dismissed.

You're argument then, boils down to "but maybe you're wrong". Maybe so, but that does not translate into you, the creationists, being right.

In any case, if you did a maths problem and I came up to you and said "you got it wrong" and upon questioning me you found that I didn't know a single thing about the problem, the maths or indeed how to count, merely had a bunch of preconceived ideas from an old book, don't you think you'd be a bit blunt about dismissing me?

And if you were silly enough to investigate further why I thought you were wrong, and I retreated to the position of "but you haven't considered why I may be right"... do you think you'd have any obligation to address my concerns, given that I was obviously a non-expert?

If you think I'm being nasty, I'd appreciate an explanation of how your argument so far differs from this scenario.

Also Smile Thank you. I can be a bit sarcastic (see above), but I am really trying for civilized debate here, and it's nice of you to explain what you think at least.
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