Evolution with God?
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31-01-2013, 09:02 PM
Evolution with God?
It seems like a lot of religious people are now somewhat accepting of evolution. They believe that God is the helping hand in making evolution work the way it does. I am looking for what everyone's response is, and how you can refute that claim with evidence? It is something i personally don't know how to answer so I'm looking for your help.
Thanks,
KindaNewAthiest
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01-02-2013, 12:42 AM (This post was last modified: 01-02-2013 12:45 AM by Vosur.)
RE: Evolution with God?
(31-01-2013 09:02 PM)KindaNewAthiest Wrote:  It seems like a lot of religious people are now somewhat accepting of evolution. They believe that God is the helping hand in making evolution work the way it does. I am looking for what everyone's response is, and how you can refute that claim with evidence? It is something i personally don't know how to answer so I'm looking for your help.
Since they are the ones who claim that god intervened in the process of evolution, they have both the burden of proof to provide evidence that (their) god exists and that he, if he exists, played any role in the evolutionary process.

They have yet to do that. Drinking Beverage

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01-02-2013, 12:55 AM
RE: Evolution with God?
(31-01-2013 09:02 PM)KindaNewAthiest Wrote:  It seems like a lot of religious people are now somewhat accepting of evolution. They believe that God is the helping hand in making evolution work the way it does. I am looking for what everyone's response is, and how you can refute that claim with evidence? It is something i personally don't know how to answer so I'm looking for your help.
Thanks,
KindaNewAthiest
Evolutionary theory explains without adding supernatural elements. There is no evidence for it
It needs no refutation.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-02-2013, 01:13 AM (This post was last modified: 01-02-2013 01:27 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Evolution with God?
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:EDIT:

Please don't mind the lulz, but when I can't top what's already been stated (by Vosur and Chas in this case) I go straight for tumblr memes... Tongue

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01-02-2013, 01:21 AM
RE: Evolution with God?
The funny thing about adding evolution to the god concept is that it opens the door to ask where god evolved. Ignore evolution, pretend that god just snapped his fingers and created all living things in a few days, well, you can just say it's because he's god. But when you say that evolution is real and god just helps it along, now you've got to deal with that nagging little question about god's evolution.

More in depth, if god's plan was to put us here to live mortal lives then judge us and let some of us into heaven, then the idea that he began this plan 6,000 years ago and it's been running ever since is, at least, internally consistent. But if that's his plan and the way he went about it was to allow life to evolve for 4 billion years or so, nudging it from time to time, to arrive at mankind in just the last 1% of 1% of that time, well, that's a pretty hard plan to defend. It seems likely that he would only do that if he had to. Which implies that he's not omnipotent enough to create life. So how can he be omnipotent enough to create a universe? How can he be omnipotent enough to sit in judgment of us at our deaths and, if he can't do that, then there is no Salvation which means there is no reason for Jesus. It all starts to unravel based on one initial question.

Does it disprove god? Certainly not. Any Christian can defend my weak line of reasoning, justifying and rationalizing and making it go away.

But justify it or not, it does create new questions that further undermine the already extremely shaky religious nonsense. I think many Christians would rather bury their heads in the sand and avoid any new questions that damage their faith or force them to make even more justifications than they already are.

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01-02-2013, 02:05 AM
RE: Evolution with God?
Hey now. We need the other side of the argument.
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I don't know what it is.

KC! You know this. Where are you?

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01-02-2013, 02:12 AM
 
RE: Evolution with God?
Darwin discovered the way life evolves. What he didn't realize is how impossible it is for evolution to have progressed without eliminating the very species that are evolving. Being of a medical background, I am very familiar with the blood clotting mechanism, and that sort of thing can't evolve--it has to be in place as it is, or it will kill the animal. (One factor of and the animal bleeds to death, a different one not there and all the blood congeals in the vasculature.). Or the eye, or the liver, or the kidneys, and on and on. The amount of chance mutation that would have to occur is impossible before the species goes extinct.

To believe in evolution as natural selection occuring within a background of chaotic environmental change is magical thinking. The only way to make it not magical thinking is to postulate a being like we think of God--because nothing else is possible.

Not to mention a really easy fact of life: Mutants tend to die off. Seriously, who wants to have sex with someone with six toes? Who wants to have sex with someone whose face doesn't even look like the rest of the human population? And most mutations are destructive, not progressive.

And then look at modern human beings: We're not going to evolve before we die off--there's no way we're going to be around for another hundred thousand years.
Take chest hair for an example. You would think we're moving toward bare chested males because if you look at Magnum PI from the seventies, and guys today, there is a distinct lack of hair. Wrong: it's the fashion to shave chest hair--that's all. We still look the same as we did in the 70's. If in fact guys were loosing their chest hair, they would be less attractive to females because they would be generally weaker and have lower testosterone, so they would die off before we evolved into them.

So, you're a Neadrethal woman, and there's this guy in a cave. He's smart, because he's lost all his hair, but he's learned to wear animal skins. And he's smart, and therefore really good at hunting. Before she bore his children the Neandrethal men would kill him, take his hides, weapons, and food and mate with the woman.
Even one small change is nearly impossible. All the evolution that has occurred, in much more important ways, is even more impossible.

This guy was gay and weak--no chance of him spurring on evolution.




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01-02-2013, 02:20 AM
RE: Evolution with God?
Duuuuuuude. What? I don't even....
I'm not dealing with this one.

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01-02-2013, 02:27 AM
RE: Evolution with God?
You can add any imaginary component to any natural event you want.
A god aides evolution
Thor guides lightning strikes
My magical rock of infinite power creates gravity throughout the universe.

The natural event is the truthful event.

Adding to the truth with imaginary brush of creative paint is called stretching the truth or lying.

Adding to the truth subtracts from the truth.

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01-02-2013, 03:48 AM
RE: Evolution with God?
(01-02-2013 02:20 AM)Hamata k Wrote:  Duuuuuuude. What? I don't even....
I'm not dealing with this one.
Same for me. I have wasted enough time on Creationists who have never read a book on biological evolution and are consequently unable to make anything but straw man arguments and attack misrepresentations of the actual scientific theory.

Not to mention that we're dealing with good old flip-flop Egor here. Drinking Beverage

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