Evolution with God?
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04-02-2013, 02:08 PM
RE: Evolution with God?
Egor, you've insulted me and offended my honor. Aside from being an arrogant prick, you've also accused me of cutting and pasting my posts from elsewhere. Sorry, I don't do that. Every word there was written by me. These fingers, this keyboard, and all of it was written to you for your betterment as a human being. The only thing where I even approached paraphrasing someone else's words was the second sentence where I reworded a joke from Tim Minchin.

I'm going to do something I've never done on this forum before: copy/paste. But it's my post I'm copying. I suggest you pull your fat head out of your puckered up little asshole and give it a read, mkay?



---

The creationist obsession with probability amuses me.

Aside from the fact that natural selection is not random, any time someone points at odds involved in mutations and goes, "OMG SO UNLIKELY," I feel obliged to point out that things that have a one in trillion chance of happening... happen all the time. To suggest otherwise is to grossly underestimate the total number of things there are, and how much time there is for things to happen in.




Egor, consider that an organ or cell can have a simple operation that gradually becomes more complex over time, while being fully functional for the duration. Organs are just clumps of specialized cells held together by connective tissue in particular arrangements. Specialized cells are really just cells where certain internal organelles and certain external proteins are exaggerated or present in increased amounts, causing the cell to be more efficient at certain tasks. The organ's structure is determined by 4th and 5th level regulatory genes, its location and relationship to other organs is determined by 2nd and 3rd level regulatory genes, and its gross location in the overall body plan--in fact whether it is there or not--is determined by the 1st order regulatory genes, called Hox genes. The specialization of the cell is controlled by a number of genes and the chemical environment cells are exposed to while still stem cells. The internal functions of the cell are encoded by protein encoding DNA and cellular regulatory genes.

A change to cellular regulatory genes, protein encoding genes, main regulatory or Hox genes, or the genes that control environment during early fetus development, can each independently cause beneficial, harmful, or neutral changes that affect (or don't affect) the functionality of the organ.



I don't know how to explain this any clearer. Given your brand new knowledge of the functioning of animal genomes, and what you *should* already know about genetics, population genetics, mutation, and natural selection... Denying natural, non-guided evolution strikes me as sort of like denying the TCP/IP protocol. You may not like it, it may be complicated, but it fucking works and we've explained it to you fifty times and if it didn't work we wouldn't be talking.

Figure it out Egor.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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04-02-2013, 02:12 PM
RE: Evolution with God?
(04-02-2013 05:17 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  I don't know who this Avril Lavigne is, but it sounds horrible and disappointing.
No worries man, she's a poser.

Consider
Kinda like... uuuhyaknow. Dodgy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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04-02-2013, 02:15 PM
 
RE: Evolution with God?
(04-02-2013 05:48 AM)Vera Wrote:  I take my cue from th books of Astrid Lindgren. Much much better written than that bible-drivel. Also more interesting and with infinitely better morals. At least she doesn't approve of rape and the torture of animals.

So, where did Astrid get her morals? You don't have any of your own, you adopt hers and follow her because of her personality or writing style or the way she teases your mind, so now we know where you get your morals. Where do you think she gets hers? Or do you even care?

And who approves of rape and torture of animals? WTF are you even talking about? Or do you even know?
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04-02-2013, 02:18 PM
RE: Evolution with God?
(04-02-2013 02:15 PM)Egor Wrote:  So, where did Astrid get her morals? You don't have any of your own, you adopt hers and follow her because of her personality or writing style or the way she teases your mind, so now we know where you get your morals. Where do you think she gets hers? Or do you even care?
Please, read my post about sarcasm again.
This is becoming really bothersome. [Image: yawn2.gif]

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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04-02-2013, 02:21 PM
 
RE: Evolution with God?
(04-02-2013 06:05 AM)hedgehog648 Wrote:  To be fair he never said that he approved of it, just that it wasn't quite as bad as not believing in his god.

She was referring to me! A fundamentalist Veridican? She was talking to me? Dodgy

Quote:Not sure why it's our fault that no one has given us a good enough reason to actually believe, since we have no choice in the matter of what we do or do not believe, but there you go.

It's true: We don't have much free will in this life, in this realm. That comes later. But God has given us a very little amount as human beings. We can choose what we believe. In fact, that's how we come to believe. Nowhere is that more apparent than in atheist vs. theist debates, because God, in His infinite sense of humor, has made the evidence for each side perfectly equal.

But one thing about the game we are playing here: It is for keeps. Goodevil
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04-02-2013, 02:23 PM
RE: Evolution with God?
Pippi!! Big Grin

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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04-02-2013, 02:24 PM
RE: Evolution with God?
(04-02-2013 02:21 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 06:05 AM)hedgehog648 Wrote:  To be fair he never said that he approved of it, just that it wasn't quite as bad as not believing in his god.

She was referring to me! A fundamentalist Veridican? She was talking to me? Dodgy

Quote:Not sure why it's our fault that no one has given us a good enough reason to actually believe, since we have no choice in the matter of what we do or do not believe, but there you go.

It's true: We don't have much free will in this life, in this realm. That comes later. But God has given us a very little amount as human beings. We can choose what we believe. In fact, that's how we come to believe. Nowhere is that more apparent than in atheist vs. theist debates, because God, in His infinite sense of humor, has made the evidence for each side perfectly equal.

But one thing about the game we are playing here: It is for keeps. Goodevil


Well, no. The evidence is not perfectly equal. There is no evidence for any gods.

The evidence that the universe follows naturalistic processes is clear.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-02-2013, 02:27 PM
 
RE: Evolution with God?
(04-02-2013 08:48 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(02-02-2013 01:37 AM)Egor Wrote:  K.C., let me ask you a straight up question, because after all this time I really can't tell: Do you believe God exists?

Sorry, just saw this.

Absolutely, I do.

The reason is because he's granted me faith to believe in Him. Faith is a gift from God only given to His elect. This is why we can believe.

Faith fills the gaps of empirical evidence which leads to belief.

I disagree. If we have no choice or freewill capability to believe or not believe then God is utterly irrelevant to human beings--and Christ becomes a big joke.

You need a new religion, my friend. It's time to grow a set of balls and give up your comfort here in TTA. It's starting to look like sin, don't you think?
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04-02-2013, 02:28 PM
RE: Evolution with God?
(04-02-2013 02:23 PM)kim Wrote:  Pippi!! Big Grin

The Brothers Lionheart Heart Heart Heart

Also, Mio, My Son (little known fact about its dramatisation - Christian Bale's first role, as a kid). One line near the end of the book always makes me teary-eyed.

What a lovely, lovely human being she was.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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04-02-2013, 02:29 PM
RE: Evolution with God?
(04-02-2013 02:15 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 05:48 AM)Vera Wrote:  I take my cue from th books of Astrid Lindgren. Much much better written than that bible-drivel. Also more interesting and with infinitely better morals. At least she doesn't approve of rape and the torture of animals.

So, where did Astrid get her morals? You don't have any of your own, you adopt hers and follow her because of her personality or writing style or the way she teases your mind, so now we know where you get your morals. Where do you think she gets hers? Or do you even care?

And who approves of rape and torture of animals? WTF are you even talking about? Or do you even know?
I would adopt the morality of god (of the bible), but I don't think I have the stomach to kill that many innocent babies and animals or to condone the rape of other people. But I suppose his morality is superior... Consider

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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