Evolution with God?
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01-02-2013, 09:28 AM
RE: Evolution with God?
Thanks everyone for the replies. I thought this post was going to get none. I seem to understand what everyone is saying though. What I have gotten out of this is the more thiests try to shape thier religion around science the more questions and contridictions arise for them.
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01-02-2013, 09:32 AM
RE: Evolution with God?
(01-02-2013 09:28 AM)KindaNewAthiest Wrote:  Thanks everyone for the replies. I thought this post was going to get none. I seem to understand what everyone is saying though. What I have gotten out of this is the more thiests try to shape thier religion around science the more questions and contridictions arise for them.


Acute observation. Thumbsup

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-02-2013, 09:35 AM
RE: Evolution with God?
(01-02-2013 09:28 AM)KindaNewAthiest Wrote:  Thanks everyone for the replies. I thought this post was going to get none. I seem to understand what everyone is saying though. What I have gotten out of this is the more thiests try to shape thier religion around science the more questions and contridictions arise for them.
Ehh, not really. EC has actually solved and reconciled many "contradictions".

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01-02-2013, 09:40 AM
RE: Evolution with God?
(01-02-2013 02:12 AM)Egor Wrote:  Not to mention a really easy fact of life: Mutants tend to die off. Seriously, who wants to have sex with someone with six toes? Who wants to have sex with someone whose face doesn't even look like the rest of the human population? And most mutations are destructive, not progressive.


Personally, I'm a retard and I don't even know what I'm saying in here, I'm sure.



Let's look at pigeons....

Quote:The researchers have even managed to pinpoint the gene responsible for the head-crests seen in many fancy birds.

This gene, known as EphB2, controls whether the head and neck feathers on a bird turn upwards to create the ostentatious displays or downwards to maintain a line of smooth plumage.

It is a single mutation, or error, in EphB2 that turns the crest on.

By analysing the DNA around the gene, the scientists have been able to show this feather feature, much prized by pigeon "fanciers", to have evolved just the once. It was then spread through the various bird populations by breeders who wanted to see it in their own animals.

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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01-02-2013, 09:45 AM
RE: Evolution with God?
(01-02-2013 09:35 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(01-02-2013 09:28 AM)KindaNewAthiest Wrote:  Thanks everyone for the replies. I thought this post was going to get none. I seem to understand what everyone is saying though. What I have gotten out of this is the more thiests try to shape thier religion around science the more questions and contridictions arise for them.
Ehh, not really. EC has actually solved and reconciled many "contradictions".


Yes, by altering the theology. The science stands.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-02-2013, 09:53 AM
RE: Evolution with God?
KC and I have been down this road before on another thread. The desire to reconcile faith with science is an attempt to bolster the claims of science under the illusion that accepting evolution and adding in a bit of the religious explanation somehow makes their faith-based claim in-line with science. As KC has already stated on here, the claim of divinely-guided evolution is not science and is instead faith. If one were to separate what they are saying, then you end up with 2 broad pieces. The first is Evolution as science says, and is therefore science. The other is supernatural influence in a natural process, which isn't science in the least. But most who take that road are really just trying to keep their religion relevant in the modern world of evidence and reason.

Evolve
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01-02-2013, 10:52 AM
RE: Evolution with God?
(01-02-2013 08:48 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I can't find any of the videos but Hitchens had a great speech on this topic... basically on the idea of what many Christians accepting evolution would have to believe as they state it.

It was how God created life and set forth evolution, but basically kept off control and watched as he created the human race in it's early turmoil. Let countless other religious ideas spring up over time and not stopping these ideas sprouting up even before they figured out him. Watched humans live and die and supposedly die without the joy of knowing the upcoming afterlife.. Then roughly 2000 years ago decided, okay now it's time I fix their issues by bringing down to take away their sins which in essence creates the contrast of heaven and hell for his believers. And then lets that system be carried out since then doing nothing indistinguishable since.


I think I might have found what you're looking for, skip ahead to the 8:00 mark to watch Hitchens make his '100,000 years of no intervention' point.




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01-02-2013, 12:55 PM
RE: Evolution with God?
(31-01-2013 09:02 PM)KindaNewAthiest Wrote:  It seems like a lot of religious people are now somewhat accepting of evolution. They believe that God is the helping hand in making evolution work the way it does. I am looking for what everyone's response is, and how you can refute that claim with evidence? It is something i personally don't know how to answer so I'm looking for your help.
Thanks,
KindaNewAthiest

Tell them that your god Flying Spaghetti Monster created their God to rule over the evolution.
Anyway i think there are more contradictions between Bible and evolution than just the book about creation. Once you realize evolution didnt create just our legs and arms, but also our brains and it has greatly influenced the way we think, you accepted fully naturalistic view of humans. No good and bad souls and things like that.

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01-02-2013, 01:35 PM
RE: Evolution with God?
(01-02-2013 12:55 PM)Troll Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 09:02 PM)KindaNewAthiest Wrote:  It seems like a lot of religious people are now somewhat accepting of evolution. They believe that God is the helping hand in making evolution work the way it does. I am looking for what everyone's response is, and how you can refute that claim with evidence? It is something i personally don't know how to answer so I'm looking for your help.
Thanks,
KindaNewAthiest

Tell them that your god Flying Spaghetti Monster created their God to rule over the evolution.
Anyway i think there are more contradictions between Bible and evolution than just the book about creation. Once you realize evolution didnt create just our legs and arms, but also our brains and it has greatly influenced the way we think, you accepted fully naturalistic view of humans. No good and bad souls and things like that.


You can take it back ever further than that, as evolution is incompatible with a literal interpretation of Genesis. Throw out the literal interpretation and you have no basis for Adam & Eve, no original sin, no need for vicarious redemption, no need for Jesus...

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01-02-2013, 02:25 PM (This post was last modified: 01-02-2013 02:29 PM by Adenosis.)
RE: Evolution with God?
(01-02-2013 02:12 AM)Egor Wrote:  Darwin discovered the way life evolves. What he didn't realize is how impossible it is for evolution to have progressed without eliminating the very species that are evolving. Being of a medical background, I am very familiar with the blood clotting mechanism, and that sort of thing can't evolve--it has to be in place as it is, or it will kill the animal. (One factor of and the animal bleeds to death, a different one not there and all the blood congeals in the vasculature.). Or the eye, or the liver, or the kidneys, and on and on. The amount of chance mutation that would have to occur is impossible before the species goes extinct.

"Being of medical background, I don't have to do research into any of this. Also I'm right and your wrong." Drinking Beverage

You claim to have medical background AND you think things are irreducibly complex? More evidence that doctors and psychologists are in fact not scientists.

2.5 billion seconds total
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