Evolution with God?
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02-02-2013, 07:45 AM
RE: Evolution with God?
(02-02-2013 06:52 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Egor - your god is an imaginary god, like all of the others. There is no difference. They only exist in the mind of those who have that delusion.
It's the same as Odin, the same as Zeus, the same as a 6ft tall pooka rabbit named Harvey.

You can assert all the bullshit fairy tales you want concerning the delusion you have running around in your head.
Doesn't bother me one bit. The truth remains the truth no matter how much you want to paint over it with your imaginary mental paint.

Your belief doesn't alter the laws of physics. Your belief doesn't alter truth.
I know you want it to, but that's just you wanting magic to be real.

Grow up. Santa isn't real. There is no tooth fairy. There are no gods.

All of these were made up fairy tales in order to manipulate children and yet one still manipulates adults.

Very Sad


Do you suppose that Egor is pixilated? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-02-2013, 11:16 AM
RE: Evolution with God?
(02-02-2013 01:37 AM)Egor Wrote:  a) Not the same thing. God is not an imaginary figure plugged into the holes that we can't fill. God, if you understand what God is, is necessary. Thor is not necessary. A magical rock is not necessary. You could replace them with Zeus or a magical bowel of cereal. God, on the other hand, the fundamental monistic consciousness, is absolutely necessary.


b) Have you even been to college? Just a question. Are you from England? Do you at least have some A-level exams under your belt? Do you have anything except your party's line on the origins of life? Just asking. You have wasted enough time on all the people of the world and throughout all of history who have believed in God, not to mention Jesus Christ, himself, and you just know they's all juz ijits--and you're the bright one. So, what are your qualifications. It's the internet--feel free to lie.

Huh


c) KC, you need to look at things more deeply. Empirical evidence is exactly the observations that lead one to conclude there must be an intelligence helping evolution out. You say it's based on faith, but it's not. It's based on reason.



K.C., let me ask you a straight up question, because after all this time I really can't tell: Do you believe God exists?
a) So your God isn't imaginary but is necessary huh? Got any evidence to support that or are you just making claims you can't back up again? Until you can provide empirical evidence for your claims then Yahweh is just as believable as Thor or Zeus - or a magical rock, and your claims are dishonest.

b) How does Vosur's academic background affect your understanding of evolution? It is clear from your statements that you don't know what evolution is, nor do you understand the ad populum logic fallacy it would seem.

c) Ok great, if the empirical evidence shows your conclusion to be true, lets see what the evidence is.

(02-02-2013 01:51 AM)Egor Wrote:  d) Theology changes as we become more enlightened. Do you have a problem with that?

e) You are an atheist because you want to be able to sin. Great. Thumbsup



(01-02-2013 02:25 PM)Aspchizo Wrote:  You claim to have medical background AND you think things are irreducibly complex? More evidence that doctors and psychologists are in fact not scientists.




If by scientist you mean Richard Dawkins, no they are not.



As for what is a scientist: A scientist is someone who does research in one of the "sciences" using the scientific method. Typically, we think of them as someone with a Ph.D. employed to do that research.
d) Allow me to fix that mistake for you: "Theology changes as we become more enlightened by science correcting the mistakes we make."

e) Try reading the bit you quoted again. He was clearly saying that without a literal interpretation of Adam and Eve there is no original sin, no need for Jesus to die on the cross, and no concept of "salvation". So because evolution is true, the literal Adam and Eve story cannot have occurred as it is written in Genesis. Meaning that Jesus died for no real reason and accepting him is not important because there was no "original sin".

Turning that into "you just want to sin" is a blatant straw man argument worthy of a true fool.

I cannot speak for Aseptic, but the reason I am an atheist is simply because not one theist has ever presented anything close to a convincing argument for their case. I cannot believe in any god unless a solid argument is given supported by good evidence.

That said, some sins are quite fun. I like eating pork for example. I'm not sure I'd give that up even if you convinced me Yahweh existed. Nor would I stop cutting my hair - and I would still like to be able to go to the funerals of my loved ones without being labelled unclean and being required to perform an animal sacrifice to redeem myself. So yeah I'd probably still be a sinner.
(02-02-2013 04:27 AM)Egor Wrote:  f) Yes, you do. And who are you to justify yourself anyway?


g) You can fool yourself; you're not fooling me. No


h) No you weren't.



i) Is that what God is to you? Why? If He doesn't exist, why do you have a negative opinion of Him? Why do you even consider him or waste your time debating it. You are so full of it, it's amazing you can keep your mind afloat.


j) Finally, after we wade through the dung, we start to get down to the truth.

k) I listen. What amazes me is how you can delude yourself. You refuse to acknowledge the existence of God because you're too stupid to see anything but the broken and imperfect people--like me--who believe in him. At least have enough decency to admit that's not a good reason to be an atheist. At least be consistent. You said you popped out of the womb an atheist, and then you blame Christians for spoiling your image of God. We are just a convenient excuse. You don't want there to be a God, because then you might not be able to convince yourself of your own perfection--that is compared to His. Isn't that right?



l) But Aseptic, if there's no God, how can I be wrong? Consider


m) That's coming. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, maybe not those particular people, but that's coming. Remember I said it.


n) So what? I preach the Gospel message of Jesus Christ. Everything in the Veridican Articles of Faith is taken from the Gospel message of Jesus Christ. If you don't like what I say, it's because you don't like what Jesus Christ said. And if you don't like Jesus Christ, then you're really in trouble. But you don't get it, do you? You don't know what Christ represents (God, conscious of Himself from within His creation), so you hold onto the hope that if you're wrong and God really does exist that he will respect your atheism--your skepticism. He created you to be His Mirror, and you don't reflect anything, and you think He's going to keep you hanging around anyway. Why would He? Assuming you passed from this life today, you would be a wasted effort of His and nothing more.


o) Yes, you are guilty of the most common and most heinous sin of all: You reject Christ.


You may think you're holy because you're not out raping children or torturing animals, but you'd be better off to do that and believe in Christ, than to be Mother Teresa and Ghandi all rolled into one and reject him. In rejecting Christ, you choose to be the seed that doesn't sprout, the mirror that doesn't reflect, the human that doesn't transform. You will burn in hell for that.
f) Who else is better placed to do so, exactly? Are you claiming to be a mind reader now, or are you just accusing him of lying because the truth hurts you too much?

I thought you people were supposed to leave the judging to Yahweh? Or is there something in the Veridican gospel that says you can judge everyone however much you like?

g) Projection 101. You have any evidence to show he is lying to you?

h) Prove that he was born believing in a god. Tell you what lets make it easier for you. Give us one example of a human being who believed in a god before being told about that god by someone else. If you can't do that, then stop being obnoxious just for the sake of it.

i) If Batman doesn't exist, how come I have a positive opinion of Batman?

j) Nice to see that you at least admit how religious nutjobs repel people who don't want anything to do with them. But you can't just cherry pick one reason out of all the ones given to you. You don't want us to be atheists? Give us one reason not to be that isn't based on bullshit.


k) What amazes me is how you delude yourself into thinking you are making a relevant point about anything despite a complete unwillingness to back up a single one of your claims with an actual fact. Yes a dislike of religious people is not enough of a reason to become an atheist but he gave you plenty of good reasons - reasons you clearly couldn't refute or you wouldn't focus on this particular one.

l) You can be (and are) very much incorrect about your belief about atheists. If you are talking about morality, then yeah being abusive to people is only wrong in certain people's subjective viewpoint. I hope (though it is a faint one) that you aren't going to try and tell us that morality is objective.

m) Can anyone say delusions of grandeur?

n) If God created Aseptic as his mirror and Aseptic does no reflecting, God did a pretty bad fucking job of creating him. That's not Aseptic's fault, it's God's fault for not being very good at making stuff. Besides, if he wanted a mirror, why did he not just make a mirror? Are we smarter than God? Was he unable to work out that certain surfaces reflect light? If God has put in all this wasted effort, does that not imply that he is imperfect, despite all your claims to the contrary?

o) Again I can't speak for Aseptic here, but I don't "reject" Jesus. I don't believe he exists, so I cannot reject him. I reject the idea that he exists, but I cannot reject him without believing he exists. And if you seriously think that not believing in Jesus is worse than murdering and raping people, then you and I will never see eye to eye because frankly you disgust me.

Incidentally, Gandhi was awesome, don't put him in the same boat as that bitch Mother Teresa. And tell us why your god is blaming us for his own design mistakes?
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02-02-2013, 12:07 PM
RE: Evolution with God?
(02-02-2013 04:27 AM)Egor Wrote:  Yes, you are guilty of the most common and most heinous sin of all: You reject Christ.


You may think you're holy because you're not out raping children or torturing animals, but you'd be better off to do that and believe in Christ, than to be Mother Teresa and Ghandi all rolled into one and reject him. In rejecting Christ, you choose to be the seed that doesn't sprout, the mirror that doesn't reflect, the human that doesn't transform. You will burn in hell for that.

That alone goes to show that your completely fucked in the head. You'd rather people rape and torture animals with a belief in jesus christ than be upstanding citizens that lack belief.

Threatening us with hell? wow... do you realize who your talking to?

I wish you could see how immoral and childish you are.

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02-02-2013, 02:25 PM (This post was last modified: 02-02-2013 02:42 PM by Free Thought.)
RE: Evolution with God?
(02-02-2013 04:27 AM)Egor Wrote:  
Quote:Am I an atheist because I want to sin?

Nope.

Yes, you are guilty of the most common and most heinous sin of all: You reject Christ.

You may think you're holy because you're not out raping children or torturing animals, but you'd be better off to do that and believe in Christ, than to be Mother Teresa and Ghandi all rolled into one and reject him. In rejecting Christ, you choose to be the seed that doesn't sprout, the mirror that doesn't reflect, the human that doesn't transform. You will burn in hell for that.

Yes, you are guilty of the most common and heinous crime of all: You reject:

Thor----------------------Athena---------------Anat--------------------Amaterasu------------------Taimat
Odin----------------------Aphrodite------------Ba'al Hadad------------Tsukuyomi------------------Apsu
Baldr----------------------Apollo----------------El Elyon----------------Izanagi
Bragi----------------------Ares-----------------Resheph-----------------Raijin
Buri-----------------------Artemis--------------Yaw---------------------Watasumi
Dagr----------------------Demeter-------------Marqod
Delling--------------------Dioysus--------------Mot
Nott----------------------Hades-----------------Molech
Eir------------------------Hephaestus----------Kotharat
Forseti--------------------Hera-----------------Qadeshtu
Freya---------------------Hermes--------------Attar
Freyr---------------------Posiden



And on and on, so does the list go.

A single action is worth more than the words it takes to describe it.
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02-02-2013, 02:54 PM
RE: Evolution with God?
(02-02-2013 04:49 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  Wrong again. I don't choose to be associated with you. You come to my forum, and atheist forum, to spew your bullshit. If I wanted to associate with you, I'd go to your forum. I haven't even visited it - I know some members here went to check it out, even if only to see how crazy it is, but not me. No interest, not curiosity where your brand of craziness is concerned. None.

But you come here and vomit out your diatribe. In my home. Maybe there are some people visiting this site, seekers, their minds not made up yet, looking for answers, passing by rather than moving in. Maybe they see your crap and are moved by it, as unlikely as that seems. Maybe they then see my responses and realize that your crap is not so moving after all.

What AS said.
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02-02-2013, 03:19 PM
RE: Evolution with God?
Irreducibly complex? Totally busted here http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/i...trial.html

More like irreducibly dense.


NNTR

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I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's. - Mark Twain in Eruption
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02-02-2013, 03:36 PM
RE: Evolution with God?
(02-02-2013 03:19 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Irreducibly complex? Totally busted here http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/i...trial.html

More like irreducibly dense.


NNTR
That was a very well-made documentary, thanks for sharing. I've seen it earlier today because you posted it in a different thread as well. Smile

The final nail in the coffin of Intelligent Design was indeed the Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District case. That the metaphorical hammer was a Christian Republican judge who was appointed by George W. Bush makes the victory so much more pleasing.

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02-02-2013, 03:39 PM
RE: Evolution with God?
(02-02-2013 03:36 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(02-02-2013 03:19 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Irreducibly complex? Totally busted here http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/i...trial.html

More like irreducibly dense.


NNTR
That was a very well-made documentary, thanks for sharing. I've seen it earlier today because you posted it in a different thread as well. Smile

DITTO!! I like that the transcript is there, too - this is a keeper! Thumbsup

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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02-02-2013, 04:23 PM
 
RE: Evolution with God?
(02-02-2013 04:49 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  But you come here and vomit out your diatribe. In my home.

This isn't your home. This is more my home than yours. You don't even support it. You just leech off it. You might as well be a homeless bum saying, "This is my bridge. You come to my bridge and vomit your diatribe."

You think this is your place because you're an atheist? No

You are in desperate need of a reality check.

Quote:Or maybe not. Actually, probably not. But I reply to you not because of your self-proclaimed magnetism, for you are completely lacking of such a quality, but rather on the off chance that such a seeker is here and my "dancing" with you might keep them from wandering into your insane world.

The "rational" atheist is a saint only trying to help others. Laughat

EDIT: Hmmm. I see the "Donation" button has disappeard. Wonder what's up with that?
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02-02-2013, 04:23 PM
RE: Evolution with God?
(02-02-2013 03:39 PM)kim Wrote:  
(02-02-2013 03:36 PM)Vosur Wrote:  That was a very well-made documentary, thanks for sharing. I've seen it earlier today because you posted it in a different thread as well. Smile

DITTO!! I like that the transcript is there, too - this is a keeper! Thumbsup
Oddly enough it should be obvious that all forms of christian science/intelligent design science/ etc... base their entire case on the argument from ignorance fallacy.

The part I find to be completely ironic is that their arguments, help science by giving people questions to answer. Once their claims get refuted they look else where.

I have to say thank you to those misguided individuals for helping me educate my self in order to refute their nonsense.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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