Evolutionary Creationism

[Chas]

(24-12-2011 12:30 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I've finally found a name to what I believe as far as evolution/creationism goes.

Evolutionary Creationism is a form of Theistic Evolution. I didn't know my belief had an actual name until just recently. Where EC differs from TE is the fact that ECs believe that God had an active role in evolution. TEs believe that God created evolution and that the end results were because of that created evolution. ECs say that God planned every minute branch of evolution down to the littlest detail.

The other difference is that ECs don't read science into Genesis. TEs place science into the creation account in Genesis while ECs views the Genesis creation account as ancient cosmology and exalted language. ECs believe that the creation account bares no scientific reasoning, but it served as painted picture for the early believers so that they could grasp and understand God and His plan.

I suppose you'll come up with either a convoluted justification or play the "God works in mysterious ways ..." card, but what about all the death? And it's not just death, but horrible, painful, messy, ugly death.

Nature is hugely fecund and profligate, creating more life than can be sustained, then killing it off in countless dreadful ways. This is a plan?

[Erxomai]

(24-12-2011 12:34 PM)Chas Wrote:  

(24-12-2011 12:30 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I've finally found a name to what I believe as far as evolution/creationism goes.

Evolutionary Creationism is a form of Theistic Evolution. I didn't know my belief had an actual name until just recently. Where EC differs from TE is the fact that ECs believe that God had an active role in evolution. TEs believe that God created evolution and that the end results were because of that created evolution. ECs say that God planned every minute branch of evolution down to the littlest detail.

The other difference is that ECs don't read science into Genesis. TEs place science into the creation account in Genesis while ECs views the Genesis creation account as ancient cosmology and exalted language. ECs believe that the creation account bares no scientific reasoning, but it served as painted picture for the early believers so that they could grasp and understand God and His plan.

I suppose you'll come up with either a convoluted justification or play the "God works in mysterious ways ..." card, but what about all the death? And it's not just death, but horrible, painful, messy, ugly death.

Nature is hugely fecund and profligate, creating more life than can be sustained, then killing it off in countless dreadful ways. This is a plan?

Duh.

Their's not to reason why,
Their's but to do and die:

[kingschosen]

I said it somewhere else, but I don't remember where...

Anyway, the justification and morality behind it stems from my belief that there is a God, and He is the Christian God. This is the foundation on which all my beliefs are built. Anything that contradicts that belief, I must reconcile while keeping my faith in God as the control. This is where my EC belief came from... also my Calvinistic belief.

(24-12-2011 11:52 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  You know, I don't have a single problem with EC theorists. ID theorists wish to dumb our kids down, but at least EC theorists aren't attempting to brainwash our kids. Did a God guide evolution? I don't see any reason to believe so, but there's no evidence against it, either (at least that I am aware of).

If you wish to believe in a God who shaped evolution, more power to you Kingschosen. Just please wake up your brethren who are in denial.

Thank you. And honestly, after studying basic biology, anyone who can deny evolution is simply in denial.

[houseofcantor]

(24-12-2011 12:43 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I said it somewhere else, but I don't remember where...

Anyway, the justification and morality behind it stems from my belief that there is a God, and He is the Christian God. This is the foundation on which all my beliefs are built. Anything that contradicts that belief, I must reconcile while keeping my faith in God as the control. This is where my EC belief came from... also my Calvinistic belief.

Special revelation, in the words of Paul. But your morality is your own, while evolutionary creationism is an adapted ethical standard based upon others' morality; one which I would have to conclude involves teaching creationism as science...

...muah-ha-ha-ha...

...are you a proponent of this? Do you know their agenda? Where is there any mention of the emergence of physical science from metaphysics in scripture? The will of YHWH expressed to Moses was one of moral law; there was no consideration of science being somehow separate from morality, how do you reconcile this?

...you own a boxer, do you not, Mr. KC?

(man, devil+advocate just go together like - unicorns and glitter! :angel

[ddrew]

(24-12-2011 12:43 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I said it somewhere else, but I don't remember where...

Anyway, the justification and morality behind it stems from my belief that there is a God, and He is the Christian God. This is the foundation on which all my beliefs are built. Anything that contradicts that belief, I must reconcile while keeping my faith in God as the control. This is where my EC belief came from... also my Calvinistic belief.

This is what I respect about you KC .. the fact that you are allowing your beliefs to evolve. Your questioning things that are comming up and not locking down your brain, but accepting things like evolution and bare facts that are a result of rational reasoning.

[Erxomai]

(24-12-2011 03:16 PM)ddrew Wrote:  

(24-12-2011 12:43 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I said it somewhere else, but I don't remember where...

Anyway, the justification and morality behind it stems from my belief that there is a God, and He is the Christian God. This is the foundation on which all my beliefs are built. Anything that contradicts that belief, I must reconcile while keeping my faith in God as the control. This is where my EC belief came from... also my Calvinistic belief.

This is what I respect about you KC .. the fact that you are allowing your beliefs to evolve. Your questioning things that are comming up and not locking down your brain, but accepting things like evolution and bare facts that are a result of rational reasoning.

I'm concerned, dd. It is Saturday, but should you be drunk this early?

[ddrew]

(24-12-2011 03:19 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  I'm concerned, dd. It is Saturday, but should you be drunk this early?

Hahahah... actually that's the problem.. im cold sober atm. Tonight and tomorrow belong to my son.... not my habits.

[Erxomai]

(24-12-2011 04:40 PM)ddrew Wrote:  

(24-12-2011 03:19 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  I'm concerned, dd. It is Saturday, but should you be drunk this early?

Hahahah... actually that's the problem.. im cold sober atm. Tonight and tomorrow belong to my son.... not my habits.

Props.

[kingschosen]

(24-12-2011 01:01 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Special revelation, in the words of Paul. But your morality is your own, while evolutionary creationism is an adapted ethical standard based upon others' morality; one which I would have to conclude involves teaching creationism as science...

My morality may be my own, but it's created by the interactions and the influence of the world around me.

Quote:...are you a proponent of this? Do you know their agenda? Where is there any mention of the emergence of physical science from metaphysics in scripture? The will of YHWH expressed to Moses was one of moral law; there was no consideration of science being somehow separate from morality, how do you reconcile this?

No... creationism is theology; not science. Science should not be read into the creation account.

If God created science, aren't His morals within science? If God is omnipotent, then aren't His morals created and sequenced into our DNA? Science is never mentioned by God because the people did not have the mental understanding and comprehensions that we do today. At that time, we had not reached the mental evolution in which God could explain how a cell evolves or why bacteria can hurt you. Instead, He focused on morality so that would continue to evolve and be passed in our DNA.

On a side note, this is the same reason God use common cosmology at the time to explain creation. It was something familiar with the people, and He was "speaking their language".

Quote:...you own a boxer, do you not, Mr. KC?

I... do?

[houseofcantor]

Boxer is directed evolution - a sin to any form of creationism.

But nah, me an you square, KC. You're the kind of Calvinist makes me not wanna kill Christians. It is tao.