"Evolutionist"
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11-10-2013, 09:19 AM
RE: "Evolutionist"
(09-10-2013 03:57 PM)Teen-skeptic-go! Wrote:  I HATE THIS WORD! I hate it when people use it, I hate that it even has it's own dictionary entry, I DESPISE IT! However, it isn't nearly as bad as "Darwinist."
Ok, sorry, but I'm going to have to be the party pooper on this one. I'm just not seeing what the big deal is. "Darwinist"? Ok, yeah that's an inaccurate term and I can see why it's worth pointing that out, but it's not going to get under my skin. Evolutionist, on the other hand, I really don't see what's wrong with it and I especially don't see why it's so despised.

I get Raptor Jesus' point that it isn't necessary, but there are countless words that have other words that mean the same thing. That's just language. I see evolutionist as having a smaller scope than anthropologist, paleontologist, etc. so it doesn't even have exactly the same meaning.

Finally, I understand that some theists will regurgitate either or both terms specifically as an insult. But I'm proud to be among those who know that evolution is real and, since that's what they really mean when they use either term, it's a compliment, not an insult. Next time someone calls you and evolutionist, I would recommend saying "thanks".

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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11-10-2013, 12:40 PM
RE: "Evolutionist"
(11-10-2013 09:19 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Ok, sorry, but I'm going to have to be the party pooper on this one. I'm just not seeing what the big deal is. "Darwinist"? Ok, yeah that's an inaccurate term and I can see why it's worth pointing that out, but it's not going to get under my skin. Evolutionist, on the other hand, I really don't see what's wrong with it and I especially don't see why it's so despised.

The part of Darwinist that is annoying is that the creationists are trying to link the belief to more of a cult of personality, or even a religion, as opposed to verifiable, observable science. It's similar to the notion that atheism "takes faith", so they can handwave away any complaints by atheists that Christianity lacks evidence.

Other than that, most of them know it's insulting, so its deliberate use is them being deliberately insulting.
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11-10-2013, 12:41 PM
RE: "Evolutionist"
(11-10-2013 09:19 AM)Impulse Wrote:  ...
I get Raptor Jesus' point that it isn't necessary, but there are countless words that have other words that mean the same thing. That's just language. I see evolutionist as having a smaller scope than anthropologist, paleontologist, etc. so it doesn't even have exactly the same meaning.
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I get your point with "That's just language", and that's why I included more terms beyond simply biologist, and included the others as well. I don't have a problem with the word, in and of itself. The word is fine, and just as descriptive as the others, but with a more focused meaning, perhaps.

My problem lays with who uses it. The person, or people, who are being described as "evolutionist" never refer to themselves or others as "evolutionist". Even putting all the intended or unintended slights aside, it's use on that grounds alone annoys me.

It's why I came up with the example of calling them "supernaturealist", or a "floodist". It is not what they call themselves. To me it's not the accuracy or inaccuracy of the word that annoys, or the malleability of language, it's that it's being used at all, when it's a word that is not used by those who are the practitioners of that word.

It's like if I were a Dentist, and people insisted on refering to me as a "Toothist". That may be a word that you can use to describe me. "Dent" in dentist does mean Tooth. But still, stop saying and using it. Dentist do not call themselves toothist. It's annoying. I'm annoyed by that simply on principle.

Come to think of it, another thing that annoys me about it, again having to do with why the person, theists, use it is that they are using a label for there fellow theist to encapsulate the "evolutionist" in. When they use the term "evolutionist" they are using it in a different way that we might. If I did use my made up word of "floodist", I'm only referring to their belief in the flood. Their use of "evolutionist" is not isolated to evolution. They are using it to imply other beliefs beyond evolution itself. In other words, they are combining "belief" in evolution with atheism. If you believe in evolution, then you don't believe in "God".

Personally I don't have strong feelings about that, because I don't believe in "God" or "gods". But it does still grate my nerves a little bit because those are two different things. They are implying they are the same. If the term were not used in this way, I would not give a shit.

But again, it mostly just annoys me because none of us use that word. So stop saying a word we do not use. It's just dumb. That's all really.

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11-10-2013, 12:47 PM
RE: "Evolutionist"
(11-10-2013 12:40 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  The part of Darwinist that is annoying is that the creationists are trying to link the belief to more of a cult of personality, or even a religion, as opposed to verifiable, observable science. It's similar to the notion that atheism "takes faith", so they can handwave away any complaints by atheists that Christianity lacks evidence.

Other than that, most of them know it's insulting, so its deliberate use is them being deliberately insulting.

Yes, dead on my point about "darwnist" especially the "cult of personality" point. It's the idea that if our "belief" in evolution can be reduced to idolizing worship, then they can dismiss it as such, and as though it has no legs, beyond that, of it's own, to stand on.

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11-10-2013, 01:13 PM
RE: "Evolutionist"
What are Christian evolutionists called?

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11-10-2013, 01:36 PM
RE: "Evolutionist"
(11-10-2013 01:13 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  What are Christian evolutionists called?

Atheists.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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11-10-2013, 01:39 PM
RE: "Evolutionist"
(11-10-2013 01:36 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(11-10-2013 01:13 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  What are Christian evolutionists called?

Atheists.

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11-10-2013, 01:41 PM
RE: "Evolutionist"
(11-10-2013 01:39 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(11-10-2013 01:36 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Atheists.

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Sorry buddy, I couldn't resist. Big Grin

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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11-10-2013, 02:23 PM (This post was last modified: 11-10-2013 03:04 PM by Raptor Jesus.)
RE: "Evolutionist"
(11-10-2013 01:13 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  What are Christian evolutionists called?

And see, that's my point. You can be an "evolutionist" who believes in "God". I'd prefer that one's understanding of evolution would negate at last some of their need for belief, but they still can and a great many do.

The use of "evolutionist" implies that one can only believe in evolution if they don't believe in "God". And that is unfortunate. I'd prefer the Christian, as long as they are going to continue to remain a Christian, still at least "believe" in evolution. It's at least better than a Christian who does not.

Theist using terms like "evolutionist" in the implicit way they use it, scares off others theist from even considering the validity of evolution, because it's made to seem synonymous with being an atheist.

Again, I'd rather they at last be a Christian who accepts evolution, than one who doesn't because of their fear of the connotations of being that dirty word, an "evolutionist".

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11-10-2013, 02:34 PM
RE: "Evolutionist"
(11-10-2013 02:23 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  
(11-10-2013 01:13 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  What are Christian evolutionists called?

And see, that's my point. You can be an "evolutionist" who believes in "God". I'd prefer that one's understanding of evolution would negate at last some of their need for belief, but they still can and a great many do.

The use of "evolutionist" implies that one can only believe in evolution if they don't believe in "God". And that is unfortunate. I'd prefer the Christian, as long as they are going to continue to remain a Christian, still at least "believe" in evolution. It's at least better than a Christian who does not.

Theist using terms like "evolutionist" in the impliced way they use it, scary off others theist from even considering the validity of evolution, because it's made to seem synonymous with being an atheist.

Again, I'd rather they at last be a Christian who accepts evolution, than one who doesn't because of their fear of the connotations of being that dirty word, an "evolutionist".

Glad you got my point Smile

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