Excellent Rant About Meninists (anti-feminists)
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16-05-2016, 04:26 PM (This post was last modified: 16-05-2016 04:30 PM by CosmicRaven.)
RE: Excellent Rant About Meninists (anti-feminists)
No no no. Jesus says "Ah, men." ^^

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16-05-2016, 04:52 PM
RE: Excellent Rant About Meninists (anti-feminists)
(16-05-2016 03:00 PM)I Am Wrote:  You all know I am a feminist. The goal of feminism is gender equality. It isn't making women act like men do in a sexist society or vice versa, it's making women and men co-equal in a non-sexist society. It's merging the seperate spheres, balancing social and economic status, finding new ways to do kinship roles, and teaching all of it the best we can to new generations who will take it and do it even better. Being anti-feminist is pro-sexism, just like being anti-hispanic is pro-racism. I hope at some point the ideas "feminine" and "masculine" will be weird or different enough that feminism will seem archaic. When that happens, the word will change. Even then, the need to continue practicing universal respect and regard for the sapient will be there.

That said, some feminists have occasionally said wrong-headed things. A person can be right about lots of premises and still make a wrong conclusion. When that happens, those statements deserve criticism. That doesn't mean that the pursuit of gender equality is wrong though.

As for so-called men's rights advocates, do not presume to speak for my gender. I am a man. I am a feminist. My pride in being a man will be greater when we are not objects of fear or at least wariness for half the population. My male dignity will be enhanced when I don't hear men using anatomy to smear a woman's character. My rights are protected when everyone's are. What you seem to advocate for is a nostalgia for a more sexist society than we currently have. There's no actual harm to men being claimed. It's just complaints about feeling left out of a conversation that is no longer about whether to render gender societally moot, but how.

Well, here's part of how. I am a feminist man. I see sexism around me every day when men interrupt women at work, when men try to talk to me about how sexy some woman is,* when a store clerk pays more attention to me than my spouse. So-called MRAs do not speak for me. Whiny, defensive, faux-victim sexism is still sexism.

*BTW women, you know that a select few douchebag doctors, lawyers, salesmen, etc. still do that with clients right? As soon as there are no women present, some men seem to think the world is their locker room. They comment on pictures of female celebrities, their own employees, even other clients. One more reason to prefer female professionals - generally they don't remark on the size of your breasts to the next guy they see.

Thank you, beautiful words and sentiment. There are so many advantages to having and treating women equally, I don't get how so many can be blind to that.

Thanks for your post.

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16-05-2016, 08:50 PM
RE: Excellent Rant About Meninists (anti-feminists)
(16-05-2016 03:00 PM)I Am Wrote:  Being anti-feminist is pro-sexism

So what about gender egalitarians? Consider Also I ain't anti-feminist, by technicality I would be one as well, but I don't like the crazies and the people wanting me to ignore them.

(16-05-2016 03:00 PM)I Am Wrote:  I hope at some point the ideas "feminine" and "masculine" will be weird or different enough that feminism will seem archaic.

Well that would require some more sexual selection in a different route.


(16-05-2016 03:00 PM)I Am Wrote:  There's no actual harm to men being claimed. It's just complaints about feeling left out of a conversation that is no longer about whether to render gender societally moot, but how.

Like how courts favor women over men, women face less jail time for the same crime, the fact in the U.S I have go to apply for selective service because of my genitals These are just complaints? Are do men in the situation not matter? How about the fact colleges 2-1 favor women to men, or how men make up more suicides, also the fact the schools to favor girls over boys. These are issues MRAs bring up, so tell me again, is this just whining, or are the MRAs right.


(16-05-2016 03:00 PM)I Am Wrote:  Well, here's part of how. I am a feminist man. I see sexism around me every day when men interrupt women at work.

Women interrupt men at work, men interrupt men at work, women interrupt women at work. This isn't a sex issue, just a people issue.

(16-05-2016 03:00 PM)I Am Wrote:  when men try to talk to me about how sexy some woman is,*

So I guess when women talk about how sexy men are than it is sexism too, or are we allowing double standards?
(16-05-2016 03:00 PM)I Am Wrote:  when a store clerk pays more attention to me than my spouse.

First, I notice a lot of anecdotes with no sources. Second, this still isn't a sexim issue. You don't think that many times around the world people pay attention more to the wife than the husband?

(16-05-2016 03:00 PM)I Am Wrote:  *BTW women, you know that a select few douchebag doctors, lawyers, salesmen, etc. still do that with clients right? As soon as there are no women present, some men seem to think the world is their locker room.

First, you assume women don't do the same. Men and women usually are attracted to each other. Second, if it is private so what? Do you want to police them or somethin'? Because that would be similar to other things that policed language( and failed).

(16-05-2016 03:00 PM)I Am Wrote:  They comment on pictures of female celebrities, their own employees, even other clients.

So men thinking a women is hot is wrong because? Do you think they think less of them for being hot? If yes, do women who talk about men being hot degrade men in the same way? Again, policing people for being human is not good.

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16-05-2016, 11:34 PM
RE: Excellent Rant About Meninists (anti-feminists)
Quote:The goal of feminism is gender equality.

Feminism is to gender equality like christian are to all the bad parts of the bible.
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18-05-2016, 08:21 AM
RE: Excellent Rant About Meninists (anti-feminists)
I need some background. Why do people debate this again? I'm so lost. ^^

It seems like everyone just wants equality.
I think I need some background. Explain it like I'm 5. I'm guessing people have different ideas of how equality should be achieved?

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19-05-2016, 10:01 AM
RE: Excellent Rant About Meninists (anti-feminists)
(18-05-2016 08:21 AM)CosmicRaven Wrote:  I need some background. Why do people debate this again? I'm so lost. ^^

It seems like everyone just wants equality.
I think I need some background. Explain it like I'm 5. I'm guessing people have different ideas of how equality should be achieved?

My problem is not with feminism, but what it has become. Spreading false hoods and complain about problems that can be solved by taking responsibility (or can't be solved at all [i.e gender roles].) I just want this 3rd wave feminism to stop so people don't associate feminism with cancer.

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19-05-2016, 10:12 AM
RE: Excellent Rant About Meninists (anti-feminists)
(18-05-2016 08:21 AM)CosmicRaven Wrote:  I need some background. Why do people debate this again? I'm so lost. ^^

It seems like everyone just wants equality.
I think I need some background. Explain it like I'm 5. I'm guessing people have different ideas of how equality should be achieved?

Some people are talking about the misandrist groups calling themselves feminists today, and some are talking about the original feminists seeking equality. For some reason they can't arrive at any definition everyone can work with. So they have been talking past each other in this and many other threads when actually they want the same things. Tongue

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19-05-2016, 10:44 AM
RE: Excellent Rant About Meninists (anti-feminists)
(19-05-2016 10:12 AM)Dom Wrote:  For some reason they can't arrive at any definition everyone can work with. So they have been talking past each other in this and many other threads when actually they want the same things. Tongue

If I have talked past you before than I must apologize. Big Grin

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19-05-2016, 10:51 AM
RE: Excellent Rant About Meninists (anti-feminists)
(11-05-2016 10:26 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(11-05-2016 06:00 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  The majority of anti-feminists and/or misogynists are men.... a coincidence... I think not.

Not surprised mos misogynist are men, like most misandrist are women. Also what is an anti-feminist anyway? That label seems to be thrown around of those critical of 3rd wave feminism, even feminist.

(11-05-2016 06:00 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  I find it interesting that even after a hundred years people who dare to fight for the equal rights of women are still being shouted down by the anti-feminists,

Which is interesting because most of the anti-feminist support women's rights, many say feminism is a great movement and is needed in the middle east. So I think you are strawmanning some people.

(11-05-2016 06:00 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  still being call "men haters",

That almost sounds like an argument [still being called homophobes]<Christians say this a lot. Just because you complain about your beliefs not being something doesn't make it so. Now feminism was not all about man hating, but the man hate that has spawned has something to do with feminism.

(11-05-2016 06:00 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  still being told "you have nothing to complain about",

Well not on gender issues no. The west has given rights to women and equal opportunity. What it is now is women wanting the power with no responsibility. To add many things that we consider problems for women are the same for men. The difference is men don't complain about it as often. So when it comes to equal rights, there is nothing to complain about. To add it ain't a social thing effecting men and womeneither, it is a biology thing. There is a reason more males are ceo's and more male homeless. This isn't to say that social aspects don't exist, but that there are not the reasons for why men and women aren't 50/50 split in jobs. I think you should see this if you want to know what I am getting on about.






(11-05-2016 06:00 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  still being told "others have it worse than you" still being told "

They do. The worst here is that a ugly guy looks at you because you are pretty. In the middle east you get acid thrown on ya for learning as a woman. Both are bad, but guess which one is worst? Hell even I got it worst. Dudes just get a capped busted in them or stabbed when someone stares at us. To add to, men also get the stare from people who think they look good, difference is that we either handle it differently or we have no one to go to.

(11-05-2016 06:00 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  you have all the same rights as men" even though in theory that might be true (except it isn't, re: body autonomy), in practice it never has been and still isn't. And now being told "feminism is a religion, a cult"... anything to shame or degrade the enemy, I guess. Facepalm

No not might be, do. This is why the question "what rights do men have that women don't," can never be answered. The pay gap, doesn't exist, 1&5 rape on campus, isn't true. Discrimination for jobs based on gender, not true. What it is is that women have the same rights as men, all of them. Including the right to be rejected from something because they don't qualify.


Also to add abortion is most voted against by women, so this isn't a problem men are causing and it is democracy.

(11-05-2016 06:00 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  And now being told "feminism is a religion, a cult"... anything to shame or degrade the enemy, I guess. Facepalm

You ever sit down and question why? I noticed the parallels between modern feminism and christianity. Seriously I have noticed it, I can even switch these words around:

Feminism=Christianity

Anti-Feminist=Non believer

Patriarchy=Illuminati

Not real feminist=Not real Christians.

This might only be four but the similarities between 3rd wave feminism and Christianity are astonishing. Hell, even biology is a problem for 3rd wave feminism, like it is for Christianity.

(11-05-2016 06:00 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  The parallels to the struggle that atheists have with the religious are so many it's uncanny and yet many of the atheist anti-feminist decry that.

Well then you must be seeing it wrong. The difference is that feminism is like a religion. The fact you are equating 3rd wave feminism with atheism is just wrong. Atheist don't go not true atheist, or anti-atheist. And the fact you are saying that the anti-feminist are the religious folks is wrong.

(11-05-2016 06:00 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  They just can't see past their own personal anecdotal bias.

This is to amazing. Like wow. Alright, first projection. Second where exactly? If you want to label anti-feminist I would like to see some anecdotes. I can say feminist use anecdotes a lot, even in the threads about feminism here. However these so called anti-feminist barely if at all, use anecdotes. So who really uses anecdotes? People would label me as a anti-feminist(though I ain't) and I don't use anecdotes, and if I do it is against an anecdote, then I put some facts there.

(11-05-2016 06:00 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  I think it's a broad brush mentality that they are just too in love with to give up.

For what reason? Most of these so called anti-feminist, if not all, don't hate women. They don't hate women's right either. So what reason do they love it? Also again projection. I don't give up my "anti-feminist" views because I like them, I don't give them up because the evidence is in their favor. I don't give a shit what is real or not, I care that what I know is backed up by evidence.

(11-05-2016 06:00 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  But, hey, that just my opinion and I'm only a dirty little cultist feminists.

Well it was wrong.

Oh hai Norwegian documentary.

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19-05-2016, 10:54 AM
RE: Excellent Rant About Meninists (anti-feminists)
I remember men being opposed to Femininism. seemed the less one knew about what thei were opposing the more n's got put in there.
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