Existence Assumed
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16-03-2015, 09:51 PM
Existence Assumed
This is not another he existed/he didn't exist debate. The object here is an assumption of the existence of Jesus of Nazareth to feel out what some members here might imagine if Jesus had existed.

So let's assume that a man named Jesus, the focus of modern Christianity, actually existed. And let's assume that we accept that most- but not all- of the Gospel records represent the embellishment of an actual person.

Discounting all tales of miracles and other supernatural phenomenon, according to all you have learned, how would you describe a historical Jesus?

Remember, this is just a fun exercise to see what some of you can come up with. Don't take it too seriously, and humorous remarks are encouraged.

Go!

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16-03-2015, 09:54 PM
RE: Existence Assumed
A crazy Jew who loved getting drunk. Oh, and he was schizophrenic.

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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16-03-2015, 10:20 PM
RE: Existence Assumed
Charismatic hippie bleeding heart who could party. Would have LOVED to meet him. Probably gay.


Paul on the other hand, asshole I could do without.

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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17-03-2015, 05:35 AM
RE: Existence Assumed
An annoying Jewish rabbi that was OCD about following Jewish laws, yet would occasionally relax and not take them seriously. He would open his mouth about god loving you despite not following these laws and that would get him in deep doo-doo.

Best to keep your distance from him, just another dude claiming to be THE dude.

We know there's only one true dude:

[Image: lebowski-crjpg-5b3704dc9445f95f.jpg]

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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17-03-2015, 07:36 AM
RE: Existence Assumed
He was probably the crazy homeless guy sitting outside the "Water to Wine" bar in downtown Nazareth.

Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people.

-Carl Sagan
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17-03-2015, 10:48 AM (This post was last modified: 17-03-2015 10:53 AM by Free.)
RE: Existence Assumed
Okay, so far there appears to be a consensus that Jesus of Nazareth was some kind of drunken bum kicking around Judea back in the 1st century. This view can, in fact, be supported by Gospel records.

What else can we add to create The Thinking Atheist Members' Historical Jesus?

Go!

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17-03-2015, 11:14 AM (This post was last modified: 17-03-2015 11:19 AM by Stein.)
RE: Existence Assumed
(16-03-2015 09:51 PM)Free Wrote:  This is not another he existed/he didn't exist debate. The object here is an assumption of the existence of Jesus of Nazareth to feel out what some members here might imagine if Jesus had existed.

So let's assume that a man named Jesus, the focus of modern Christianity, actually existed. And let's assume that we accept that most- but not all- of the Gospel records represent the embellishment of an actual person.

Discounting all tales of miracles and other supernatural phenomenon, according to all you have learned, how would you describe a historical Jesus?

Remember, this is just a fun exercise to see what some of you can come up with. Don't take it too seriously, and humorous remarks are encouraged.

Go!

I confine myself only to the sayings that Paul quotes in 1 Corinthians, the parallel sayings in Matthew/Luke (sometimes called "Q" for "Quelle" -- source), a lot but not all of the narrative material in the shorter Vaticanus/Sinaiticus version of Mark, Josephus's Antiquities XX and Tacitus's Annals.

Jesus was a Jewish kid from Nazareth, whose family's livelihood was largely dependent on his father's wood-working business. Jesus learned the family craft but left home relatively early and joined John the Baptist's group, whose outlook was largely apocalyptic. But when John was executed, Jesus changed the focus of the group somewhat, becoming a rabbi himself, folding in notions like the last shall be first and giving up one's life for others as part of the message. He was also a folk healer who was perhaps a bit luckier than most, possibly because he was a bit better read than most, although still an autodidact, more likely.

The followers he accrued were probably attracted to him because his notions of no one deserving ostracism of any kind seemed pretty genuine. He was not impeccable in this respect; it took a while for him to accept those outside what passed for Israel at the time. But there seem to be glimmerings of a more pluralist approach as we move toward his execution. In fact, in many respects, the gulf between the outlook of society around him versus his own increasingly egalitarian one grew so wide by the time he was imprisoned that it is arguable that that gulf may be among the very largest for any cultural/social reformer throughout human history. Purely in terms of such a gulf with one's contemporaries, only the experiences of Gotama and Socrates seem comparable. Hence the strong retrospective notoriety that developed for all three.

He does seem to have been a party man. I have a feeling he would probably have been very accessible and affable, but his immediate disciples always worried (not without cause) about his spreading himself too thin. They were probably very protective of him, and even though one might have found him easy to talk to at a party, one or two of his handlers would probably have whisked him away after a few minutes. He frequently over-extended himself, and sometimes a whole day would go by with him totally alone to compensate.

He internalized strongly a distinct strain of antipathy in Hebrew culture toward much in the credit/debt world. On the one hand, we have such notions in earlier Scripture like the Jubilee and forgiveness of debt, etc., while on the other, Jesus seems to confront this whole moneyed class at the Temple.

He realized that his days were now numbered, and he arranged a commemorative meal with his disciples -- perhaps choosing a meal as a way to remember him by because he himself had been so active in feeding and healing the poor?

The brouhaha that resulted from the ruckus in the Temple got the implacable Pilate's attention, and even though the makers and shakers in upper-class Jewish society did not lift a finger to help Jesus (many were simply terrified of Pilate and his record number of crucifixions), his entire execution was conceived, initiated, pursued, carried out and concluded by the Roman occupation entirely.

He was not the strongest guy physically, and a few hours on the cross was all it took to kill him. His body disappeared, as did most of those who were crucified.

End of story.

Stein
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17-03-2015, 11:28 AM
RE: Existence Assumed
(16-03-2015 09:51 PM)Free Wrote:  Discounting all tales of miracles and other supernatural phenomenon, according to all you have learned, how would you describe a historical Jesus?

A rabbi with non-standard interpretations and a penchant for creating his own source material with little regard to his physical well-being.


(16-03-2015 09:51 PM)Free Wrote:  Remember, this is just a fun exercise to see what some of you can come up with. Don't take it too seriously, and humorous remarks are encouraged.

Oh, it was supposed to be funny? Okay, he was actually several people who looked very similar with the same name, born in different cities about ten years apart. They happened to say pretty similar things, and even had a following of the exact same people. They looked so similar that the disciples couldn't tell them apart.

Then, one of them got crucified, and three days later, they saw the other Jesus walking around and assumed he was resurrected. Naturally, Thomas thought this was bullshit, but Jesus knew the ante was just upped, so he pierced his hands before meeting with Thomas.

The rest is history/mythology.


You know, in all seriousness, the whole "Jesus was two dudes" thing actually has some traction (in my mind).
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17-03-2015, 01:29 PM
RE: Existence Assumed
Israel's version of Robin Hood and his merry men, except that instead of men in tights it was men in togas, loin cloths and kaftans. Instead of Maid Marian it was Mary Magdalene. Instead the Sheriff of Nottingham it was Pontius Pilate. Instead of bows and arrows it was spears and crosses.

Instead of Errall Flynn.....

[Image: article-0-1BBACDC7000005DC-127_306x500.jpg]


Jeffrey Hunter....

[Image: KING-OF-KINGS_original.jpg]

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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17-03-2015, 01:32 PM
RE: Existence Assumed
It would not matter if a man with that name existed. Still would not been born of a virgin, and still would not be a magic man, and still would not have survived rigor mortis, and no one has a magic bat phone to a cosmic security guard in any religion. IF that man existed(and he did not) he would have been simply another delusional man and or a con artist who managed to market a new religion.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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