Existence after mortal death...
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14-01-2013, 02:08 PM (This post was last modified: 20-01-2013 03:57 PM by Aseptic Skeptic.)
RE: Existence after mortal death...
(14-01-2013 01:43 PM)mawil1013 Wrote:  Consciousness, you mention it, that in itself seems implausible. Yes, a rock, yes atom, yes a particle, but consciousness seems to defy the logic of a sterile universe, even the most simplest so called 'life' seems improbable.

Improbable? Definitely. So many, many, many things had to be just right for us to be here, or even for an amoeba to be here. If they hadn't been just right, no life. None. Even so, look at how many other chunks of rock and gas are spinning around our sun with (probably) no life on any of them. Even the few that might, possibly, support some kind of life are not likely to have any.

Yes, life is improbable.

But consider this. Imagine a liter of water. Just water. Imagine watching this water and waiting for it to spontaneously erupt with life. Give it the right mix of air and whatever else it needs. What if it takes a billion years? A trillion years?

I'd call that pretty improbable.

But on this planet we have 1,260,000,000,000,000,000,000 liters of water, give or take a few milliliters. If they are spontaneously erupting with life every trillion years, that meas that just this year alone we have 1,260,000,000 liters of water erupting with life. That would still mean that life has been beginning somewhere on this planet 40 times every second since the earth cooled off enough to form water. Or, give or take a few times, life might have formed 5,045,760,000,000,000,000 times.

Life is so freaking probable that it's a good thing almost all of it dies very quickly or this planet would be covered in so much life you'd have to dig through miles of it just to find the top of Mount Everest.

Edit: son to sun.

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14-01-2013, 02:12 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death...
If you put water in a container it will sprout algae. If it has any light. But there were no testable algae organisms in there. I have always wondered how that happens?

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14-01-2013, 02:26 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death...
(14-01-2013 02:12 PM)Dom Wrote:  If you put water in a container it will sprout algae. If it has any light. But there were no testable algae organisms in there. I have always wondered how that happens?
I'd guess it gets in somehow - you're talking 'bout an airtight container right ? You'd need to *guarantee* that the damn thing was perfectly free of bacteria etc before adding the water. Also your test for algae etc would have to be very accurate.
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14-01-2013, 02:29 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death...
(14-01-2013 02:12 PM)Dom Wrote:  If you put water in a container it will sprout algae. If it has any light. But there were no testable algae organisms in there. I have always wondered how that happens?


That stuff is floating around in the air. If you put it in a swan neck bottle, no algae. Pasteur showed this.

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14-01-2013, 02:34 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death...
I have no thoughts that consciousness is linked to another dimension. There seems no reason to think it is so, other than it sounds nice that we should never cease to exist. On a related note, I've thought before- wouldn't it be great if before I die we open up the ability to "download consciousness". To to able to capture my consciousness into a computer before death- that way I may live on? Then it occurs to me that it wouldn't really be "me" anymore, would it? My thoughts and feelings, my personality- the essence of me is tied to my physical brain, which as far as we know is a complex network of physical cells and chemical reactions. So perhaps just a replication would be possible- but there's no physical way to extract "me" without destroying "me". So the replicated might be able to mimic all of the physical properties of me, but it would still be a copy. One that thinks (at least in the very beginning) like me. That scenario could go on and on about the changes to personality that would result from not having a body, having instant access to all of the accessible knowledge of the internet, etc. Like Ghost in the Shell, I suppose. But the point I'm making is, it's no longer me.

That's the way I would see this continued existence, even if on a quantum level, who's to say it's actually "you".

(14-01-2013 01:43 PM)mawil1013 Wrote:  
Quote:Yes, there are atheists who have those kinds of ideas.

I'm not one of them. The evidence is that consciousness is solely an emergent property of the brain.

Consciousness, you mention it, that in itself seems implausible. Yes, a rock, yes atom, yes a particle, but consciousness seems to defy the logic of a sterile universe, even the most simplest so called 'life' seems improbable.

With all of the unnumbered beyond trillions and trillions of galaxies, stars, and planets, I think that life is not so improbable. It seems improbable that life wouldn't begin somewhere at some time. But it's exceptionally improbable that it happened to our Earth and that you and I are the result of it.
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14-01-2013, 07:36 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death...
I find it kind of surprising when people say we have "no idea what happens" to us after we die, and yet those exact same people tend to have ideas about what happens to insects or their pet dogs after they die, based upon observation. I have not found any credible evidence to believe something special happens to humans after death, so I assume the same thing will happen to me when I die: I will die, that is, I will not be aware anymore and my body will rot and be recycled.

Belief in the afterlife seems to be part wishful thinking and part that idea, present in much religious thought, that humans are special fucking snowflakes, totally different from mere "animals." That's why people think there is a "soul," etc.

Anyway, I think it's more likely that we DIE when we die, rather than we die and then live forever. Especially with no evidence to the contrary (besides fairy tales and wishful thinking, which is not evidence).
----
Other than that, also what kineo said, if there was some kind of clone/alternate version of me, I wouldn't consider it me, it would be a being that probably tends to think,look and act similar to me.
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14-01-2013, 07:59 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death...
Any retention of personality, as we understand ourselves appears remote.
Where would any purpose lie here. The continuum of ethereal aspects, not related
to what we look on as personal identity, to, which may posit higher beings, (existence)does not
seem to relate seriously to the secular 'us' either .
To say I will come back as another person, in need of more moral teaching, relevant to some
projected higher state, does next to nothing with regards to how I presently conduct myself, in accordance with
any meaning I can apply to this life I find myself party to.
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15-01-2013, 06:43 AM
RE: Existence after mortal death...
Your personality has formed around what appears to be important in this life. Most certainly, when this life ends, your personality will be totally irrelevant.

So even if there was something that recycles after death, it makes no sense for it to carry the baggage you aquired in this life.

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20-01-2013, 03:04 AM
Existence after mortal death...
I learned a long time ago that energy cannot be destroyed, it just changes forms. Isn't our consciousness a form of energy?
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20-01-2013, 05:20 AM
RE: Existence after mortal death...
I think there is a form of energy that gets set free when you die. And that it gets recycled, or changes forms as you say.

I don't think it has anything to do with consciousness.

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