Existence after mortal death...
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24-01-2013, 01:31 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death...
(24-01-2013 01:20 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(23-01-2013 07:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  Instead of pursuing this fantasy of vital fields and esoteric bodies, your brain dysfunction might be of immense help to neuroscience.
Hey. I like the new, nicer you, Chas. But please try to stay serious for a while yet, because I just made a point. Let's say we have an electric field generator by the Wilhelm Reich patent, and we can measure intensity of the field. If this field's intensity significantly drops near vital objects, like people, and not near any ordinary electrically charged/chargeable things, would you consider it an evidence for something? It may seem insignificant to you, but I see it as an access point into your world of science.

Oh, I'm quite serious. The Reich stuff has been thoroughly debunked, I don't know why you cling to it. It is no 'access point' to science.

Quote:
(23-01-2013 07:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  Our brains are composed of tinkered mechanisms cobbled together by evolution to aid our survival.
Yours works in an unusual way that might shed light on the way brains work.
Sure, this is another way of approach. If some medical institution confirms to you, that I indeed do not fabricate my perception, would it open your mind just a little to take me seriously?
Btw, I asked the nurse on the phone if they know anything about fMRI, apparently not, nobody ever asked them about it. Looks like I'll be the first.

I take you seriously now. I just don't think your perception of your perception is accurate or reliable. I would love to see you studied with fMRI by a neuroscientist. I think there is much to learn from you.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-01-2013, 02:04 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death...
(24-01-2013 01:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  I take you seriously now. I just don't think your perception of your perception is accurate or reliable. I would love to see you studied with fMRI by a neuroscientist. I think there is much to learn from you.

You know, you're not cackling, but I'm getting this unsettling mad scientist vibe off you... at least you haven't explicitly asked him to report to the morgue for dissection.
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24-01-2013, 02:05 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death...
(24-01-2013 02:04 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(24-01-2013 01:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  I take you seriously now. I just don't think your perception of your perception is accurate or reliable. I would love to see you studied with fMRI by a neuroscientist. I think there is much to learn from you.

You know, you're not cackling, but I'm getting this unsettling mad scientist vibe off you... at least you haven't explicitly asked him to report to the morgue for dissection.


Actually, I am cackling. Drinking Beverage

No morgue until after the the fMRI.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-01-2013, 02:15 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death...
(24-01-2013 01:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-01-2013 01:20 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Hey. I like the new, nicer you, Chas. But please try to stay serious for a while yet, because I just made a point. Let's say we have an electric field generator by the Wilhelm Reich patent, and we can measure intensity of the field. If this field's intensity significantly drops near vital objects, like people, and not near any ordinary electrically charged/chargeable things, would you consider it an evidence for something? It may seem insignificant to you, but I see it as an access point into your world of science.
Oh, I'm quite serious. The Reich stuff has been thoroughly debunked, I don't know why you cling to it. It is no 'access point' to science.
Please. I have one particular patented device in mind, that produces an electric field and it measures its intensity at the same time. No matter what do you think of Reich, the science already prove the existence of the electric field. Just hypothetically, if it really works as I say, you should be able to take it as an argument, because it's simple and testable. And that will allow me to ask the PLOS Biology journal specifically about this little thing, when I finally get to it. And if you accept the argument, and the journal accepts the argument, then we have consensus. And consensus is the hallmark of science.

(24-01-2013 01:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  I take you seriously now. I just don't think your perception of your perception is accurate or reliable. I would love to see you studied with fMRI by a neuroscientist. I think there is much to learn from you.
OK, they should call at the end of February and give me a term. The term they said should be between April and May. Then I'll finally be told what does it take in this post-Communist country for a man to get a brain scan.
It's good I didn't sign in through the official Autism organization, they have waiting delays over a year.

I hope they have the internet in madhouses Drinking Beverage

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25-01-2013, 06:11 AM
RE: Existence after mortal death...



Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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25-01-2013, 06:19 AM
RE: Existence after mortal death...
(24-01-2013 01:20 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(23-01-2013 07:06 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  Electricity is made of photons. Photons are the force carrier for electromagnetism. You're asking questions we know the answers to and make an argument from ignorance that because you don't know noone knows and because noone knows your voodoo is true and people just can't see it because they're just not as smart as you. You must let go of the assurance of truth to discover the actual truth. We need imagination in science. Sometimes we need people to come up with old ideas and rework them into something new. Sometimes we need totally new ideas. There are so many unanswered questions in science - why keep asking the same answered questions? Why maintain this ignorance? Why not open up new scientific territory rather than denying what is known and is used to place space probes throughout our solar system and must work for these probes to get where they're going - why deny all of this and say it must not be true with no evidence other than the sensations that accompany your mental states?
You missed the point, for the most part. I was concerned with electro-static phenomena, purely an electric field and static charge. Not the electrons and photons.
As for old ideas, someone has to revise them when new technology comes.

But it's you who have missed the point. Photons /are/ the electro-static phenomena. Electric fields are made of photons. Magnetic fields are made of photons. A photon is how a unit of electromagnetic force moves from one place to another. Photons are electromagnetism and electromagnetism is photons. Photons are the force carrier for electromagnetism. I'll say it again slowly - if there is an electric or a magnetic effect we now know this is caused by the transfer of photons. Photons are the explanation you seek. Photons photons photons the answer is photons.

That said, there may be a deeper answer behind that one... but for now the answer is "photons", just like the answer for the other forces are w and z bosons, higgs, etc.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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25-01-2013, 07:21 AM
RE: Existence after mortal death...
(25-01-2013 06:19 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  But it's you who have missed the point. Photons /are/ the electro-static phenomena. Electric fields are made of photons. Magnetic fields are made of photons. A photon is how a unit of electromagnetic force moves from one place to another. Photons are electromagnetism and electromagnetism is photons. Photons are the force carrier for electromagnetism. I'll say it again slowly - if there is an electric or a magnetic effect we now know this is caused by the transfer of photons. Photons are the explanation you seek. Photons photons photons the answer is photons.

That said, there may be a deeper answer behind that one... but for now the answer is "photons", just like the answer for the other forces are w and z bosons, higgs, etc.
That's fascinating, but confusing. Photons? Blink And how the hell does that work? I imagine photons as particles that fly from a source (some excited atom) in a less or more straight line at a speed of light or less. They don't stop around a charged object to form a field and then shock us if we put a finger near. They just fly and their density goes down regularly with dispersion in a sphere. They don't exactly form a field.
I'd maybe believe they transmit a force of gravity, I know it's not how it works, but there is no clear end to a gravity field, it reaches "everywhere" in the galaxy, so I was told. But electric field, that is hell of a different thing. Why do photons behave like that? Why aren't they visible, what wavelength do they have? Is that anywhere near microwave range or something? Huh

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25-01-2013, 07:58 AM
RE: Existence after mortal death...
(25-01-2013 07:21 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(25-01-2013 06:19 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  But it's you who have missed the point. Photons /are/ the electro-static phenomena. Electric fields are made of photons. Magnetic fields are made of photons. A photon is how a unit of electromagnetic force moves from one place to another. Photons are electromagnetism and electromagnetism is photons. Photons are the force carrier for electromagnetism. I'll say it again slowly - if there is an electric or a magnetic effect we now know this is caused by the transfer of photons. Photons are the explanation you seek. Photons photons photons the answer is photons.

That said, there may be a deeper answer behind that one... but for now the answer is "photons", just like the answer for the other forces are w and z bosons, higgs, etc.
That's fascinating, but confusing. Photons? Blink And how the hell does that work? I imagine photons as particles that fly from a source (some excited atom) in a less or more straight line at a speed of light or less. They don't stop around a charged object to form a field and then shock us if we put a finger near. They just fly and their density goes down regularly with dispersion in a sphere. They don't exactly form a field.
I'd maybe believe they transmit a force of gravity, I know it's not how it works, but there is no clear end to a gravity field, it reaches "everywhere" in the galaxy, so I was told. But electric field, that is hell of a different thing. Why do photons behave like that? Why aren't they visible, what wavelength do they have? Is that anywhere near microwave range or something? Huh


Lumi, you really need to study some physics. Your concepts of the way things work are inaccurate and allow you to believe they support your theories when, in fact, they don't.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-01-2013, 09:32 AM (This post was last modified: 25-01-2013 09:36 AM by Luminon.)
RE: Existence after mortal death...
(25-01-2013 07:58 AM)Chas Wrote:  Lumi, you really need to study some physics. Your concepts of the way things work are inaccurate and allow you to believe they support your theories when, in fact, they don't.
The problem is, I'm not interested. Aspie children are quite uninterested in the world, unless it happens to coincide with their special interest. Therefore, wise parents and teachers use this special interest to find some aspect in it that is related to the thing they want to teach. They use the special interest as an access point. In a sense, wise teachers are really glad for the access point, or they'd be stuck with a real autist.

Of course, the pattern of attention and learning is irregular. I can't start in the beginning, I start where it is more interesting (more related to the special obsessive interest) and progress towards where it is less interesting (less related). It is essentially the Wikipedia style learning, by browsing through the links from topic to topic according to relatedness. Which results in a very fragmented understanding of the subject. No wonder the symbol of the autism spectrum is a puzzle piece, nobody has all the pieces and nobody has the same pieces. I suppose normal people learn the basic and simple things first and then progress to the more complex ones, so you can tell where they are on a line of development.
Nevermind, just rehearsing a speech for the university special education office Smile

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25-01-2013, 09:35 AM
RE: Existence after mortal death...
(25-01-2013 09:32 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(25-01-2013 07:58 AM)Chas Wrote:  Lumi, you really need to study some physics. Your concepts of the way things work are inaccurate and allow you to believe they support your theories when, in fact, they don't.
The problem is, I'm not interested. Aspie children are quite uninterested in the world, unless it happens to coincide with their special interest. Therefore, wise parents and teachers use this special interest to find some aspect in it that is related to the thing they want to teach. They use the special interest as an access point. In a sense, wise teachers are really glad for the access point, or they'd be stuck with a real autist.

Of course, the pattern of attention and learning is irregular. I can't start in the beginning, I start where it is more interesting (more related to the special obsessive interest) and progress towards where it is less interesting (less related). It is essentially the Wikipedia style learning, by browsing through the links from topic to topic.
Nevermind, just rehearsing a speech for the university special education office Smile


Then I'm no longer interested in your ideas since you have no interest in whether there is any objective reality to them.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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