Existence after mortal death...
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06-02-2013, 10:55 AM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2013 11:06 AM by Adenosis.)
RE: Existence after mortal death...
(05-02-2013 03:57 PM)Luminon Wrote:  A "pattern of explanation" might be anything - a body map of organs, bones and nerves, a mechanism of perception, wiring of nerves, hormone reaction mechanism, anything specific that corresponds in some way to the feelings. For example, there is a partial correspondence between seven major chakras and main endocrine glands. It might be interesting to measure their activity and health in people claiming that a corresponding chakra is open and active. For example, I'd love to have my pineal and pituitary gland scientifically measured, they feel quite busy.

How does your explanation have anything to do with patterns? This seems like a method of twisted logic you created as support for your delusion.

(05-02-2013 03:57 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Yeah. I perform a group meditation for years. We sit down in a darkened room, relax, chant a little and meditate for a couple of hours.

Wow someone sat and meditated for a couple hours and they felt strange things. Seriously, your evidence is ridiculous. Sorry but this is not the result of rational thought and you just confirmed for me that this is the result of a delusional mind. I meditate often and I feel some interesting things, this has nothing to do with anything external. Delusions tend to bend the reasoning of the individual with them, and I think we can all agree(except you) that is clearly evident here.

(05-02-2013 03:57 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Hey, this time it's clear, we're on an objective, scientific field. The matter and antimatter are naturally asymmetric.
http://press.web.cern.ch/backgrounders/m...-asymmetry

As for the rest, is it really a delusion? Isn't seeing things first hand a powerful, compelling influence?

You completely missed the point. You think science is unreliable or limited greatly and doesn't show us all of reality because of your delusion, and I didn't trust the theory that there are not equal amounts of both anti-matter and matter. How would it being a powerful and compelling influence imply it is not a delusion? That makes no sense. The fact that it is so compelling to you is why you have delusional beliefs about it.

(05-02-2013 03:57 PM)Luminon Wrote:  I don't know if it's scientific or not, but it's a very logical choice. If there is a refutation, it must be also logical. If I have some complex, impressive observations, the refutation must be to the point, very likely it would be also an impressive thing. Therefore, I am curious about refutation.

If all you rely on is logic then your going down to end up extremely confused about the nature of reality, the universe is not always logical. Logic isn't a stand alone method of determining the truth.

(05-02-2013 03:57 PM)Luminon Wrote:  What objective reality? Who is the one subjective here? If I lived in ancient China or India, my perception would be taken as a normal thing and I'd be encouraged to take career of a healer or a yogi. They had and still have writings and body charts that describe independently what I perceive. There is even a scientific method of detecting these things, for example, I have successfully many times tried a diagnosis and prescription through EAV measuring of skin resistance. It And the Reich's or Provod's devices would offer more evidence.


Your talking about things that either detect the weak bioelectromagnetic fields our bodies give off or biophotons, none of which are proof of chakras and are perfectly explainable without them. If you think there are people with methods of detecting chakra scientifically then you should put them in the hands of real scientists and get that shit peer reviewed, I bet you there is a reason that hasn't happened yet Wink

(05-02-2013 03:57 PM)Luminon Wrote:  With the arrival of science, we started constructing our worldview from scratch. What you consider an objective reality is actually a worldview positively constructed by peer-reviewed journals out of carefully done studies, in past couple of centuries. This is only admirable, but it's a cold start from the beginning. It's a very new, restricted view of the universe. It separates everything into neat little boxes, regardless of the underlying reality. Science means taking in only as much as we can get under control, which is not necessarily how the universe is arranged. My guess is, the universe of dark matter and energy is vastly different from our current knowledge, but much more similar to the ancient traditions. And we don't take this into our estimates. We think we do, but just because we know dark matter is out there in the space, doesn't mean we realize what it means that it is here and now, on Earth, in billions of years of concentration.

We know there is reality beyond science, only we don't know how to pin it down, how to separate it. You say that woo does not exist, I say even the woo-mongers don't know what is it that they do, and even they are not competent in arranging tests for the science. But they've been a part of tradition in touch with the reality beyond science for millenia. Science threw it all out because it didn't conform to the standard of evidence, it didn't give us the control. But then we need to somehow compensate for our voluntary, necessary self-imposed ignorance. Our wiped racial memory. We need to keep in mind that there is reality out there too and that it will come knocking in thousand different ways, unacceptable to the science, because uncontrollable. We need to be very open-minded and see the patterns, because the universe is not likely to always respect our separate branches of science. We may find cosmic influences that touch everything, from physics to biology, psychology, sociology and even history. Influences, that can not be pinned down by a single branch of science. I have a feeling that synthetic sciences are about to become very popular in the next century. I wouldn't be surprised if the concept of afterlife was introduced somewhere along the way, after a discovery of different matters, energies and dimensions.

And you wondered why I related you to Theists. Your assuming we are by default extremely confused about the nature of reality and that science can't penetrate the far reaches of this reality. Discrediting science and implying the existence of things without evidence is exactly what theists do. Yes I say woo doesn't exist, just like I say the christian god doesn't exist. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever.

http://www.whatstheharm.net/energymedicine.html

This is what happens when people take all this pseudo-science energy/chakra stuff seriously instead of science. There is no reason to assume or assert that there is a fundamental difference between the reality we have been experimenting on for hundreds of years and objective reality except your delusion. You throw all of that out just because of that one thing. You must realize that it clouds your reasoning.

(05-02-2013 07:14 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Excuse me, but they feel quite real.

Point being...?

(06-02-2013 07:17 AM)Luminon Wrote:  At the same time, it made a requirement of evidence (controllable). The first thing you ask is an evidence. This is a misunderstanding, for you evidence is the first thing before doing anything, for me it is the last thing, the goal of all investigation. I move in the pre-scientific stages, where I necessarily have little control over things.

Of course, it is something latently present in all people, but not active in most of them. The writings are clear on the progression towards enlightenment (whatever it turns out to be in scientific terms), but today few people are systematically working on it and even fewer are aware of it.

We require a controlled environment and consistent results. There is a reason we require results to be consistent, and to be consistent when measured by multiple scientists. If we did not require this we would and could easily believe in astrology, chakra, psychics, astral projection and all other nonsense based on subjective experiences and unjustified theories.

All scientists that understand the value of evidence are reaching towards enlightenment, people that do not understand what constitutes as good evidence and lack it are living fairy tales.

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1.67 billion seconds conscious

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Messages In This Thread
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Chas - 13-01-2013, 09:27 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Dom - 14-01-2013, 01:22 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Chas - 14-01-2013, 01:56 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Dom - 14-01-2013, 02:07 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Dom - 14-01-2013, 02:12 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Chas - 14-01-2013, 02:29 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - amyb - 14-01-2013, 07:36 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Dom - 15-01-2013, 06:43 AM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Chas - 20-01-2013, 08:03 AM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Dom - 20-01-2013, 05:20 AM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Chas - 20-01-2013, 08:45 AM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Chas - 20-01-2013, 10:48 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Chas - 20-01-2013, 11:01 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Chas - 20-01-2013, 11:21 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Chas - 21-01-2013, 08:19 AM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Chas - 21-01-2013, 04:05 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Chas - 21-01-2013, 05:25 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Chas - 22-01-2013, 01:50 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - amyb - 22-01-2013, 01:39 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Chas - 22-01-2013, 08:27 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Chas - 24-01-2013, 01:31 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Chas - 24-01-2013, 02:05 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Chas - 25-01-2013, 07:58 AM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Chas - 25-01-2013, 09:35 AM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Chas - 25-01-2013, 12:26 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Chas - 25-01-2013, 04:10 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - amyb - 27-01-2013, 12:15 AM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - amyb - 22-01-2013, 05:43 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Chas - 23-01-2013, 07:40 AM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - amyb - 23-01-2013, 06:13 PM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - amyb - 26-01-2013, 04:20 AM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - Chas - 27-01-2013, 09:45 AM
RE: Existence after mortal death... - amyb - 27-01-2013, 04:25 PM
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