Exodus International is history
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24-06-2013, 01:55 PM
RE: Exodus International is history
The problem is it isn't "pray the gay away".

It's counseling, healing life's hurts and past experiences and traumas, an exposure to whole, well people who are secure in their sexual identity, etc. "Pray the gay away" was a bad rubric to begin.
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24-06-2013, 03:13 PM
RE: Exodus International is history
(24-06-2013 01:55 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  The problem is it isn't "pray the gay away".

It's counseling, healing life's hurts and past experiences and traumas, an exposure to whole, well people who are secure in their sexual identity, etc. "Pray the gay away" was a bad rubric to begin.

Are you implying that to be a homosexual one must have past traumas and not secure?

Homosexuals are damaged people? Because that's what it sounds like you are implying.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-06-2013, 06:10 PM
RE: Exodus International is history
(24-06-2013 01:55 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  . . . an exposure to whole, well people who are secure in their sexual identity, etc.

I know a lot of gay people who fit that description. Is that what you meant?

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25-06-2013, 01:15 AM
RE: Exodus International is history
Am I the only one conflicted about my emotional responses to this?

On the one hand, they were employing a highly damaging and utterly ineffective methodology to a problem that's only a problem because they define it as a problem, and selling it to anyone they can convince it's a problem and they have a solution.

(I'll forgo comparing this to Christianity as a whole.)

On the other hand, they (very, very belatedly) had the self-awareness to realize this approach was damaging, the humility to eventually admit error, the integrity to do so publicly in the face of backlash from their peer groups, and the decency to apologize for it.

(I'll forgo contrasting this with Christianity as a whole.)

So on the one hand, they did awful stuff thinking it was good stuff, but on the other hand, they owned up to it hard, but on the third hand, they took forever to....

WHAT DO YOU MEAN I'M OUT OF HANDS! They're rhetorical hands, I can have as many as I want? (EDIT: And there's at least one person reading this with a gif or jpeg to prove it. Smile)

.... eh, they're done doing crappy stuff, and done in such a way that should hinder others like them in doing crappy stuff. That's going into the plus column.

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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25-06-2013, 08:20 AM
RE: Exodus International is history
Quote:Are you implying that to be a homosexual one must have past traumas and not secure?

Homosexuals are damaged people? Because that's what it sounds like you are implying.

You inferred something I didn't need to imply since it is implicit on its face! Sinners = damaged people. I don't believe nor is their scientific validity to saying homosexuals are born that way. I don't want to go on a tangent, but surprise, yet another freethinker post comes right off the topic at hand...

..."Real" homosexuals, not bisexuals or heterosexuals with some tendencies, are almost to a person either abused as a teen or pre-teen or experienced abandonment issues with a same sex parent... wait for it... here comes a flame attack from the homosexual who says "not me"... but who already has embedded issues of intense anger since they thrive on a forum whose main purpose is to denigrate God and God's followers...
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25-06-2013, 09:43 AM
RE: Exodus International is history
(25-06-2013 08:20 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Are you implying that to be a homosexual one must have past traumas and not secure?

Homosexuals are damaged people? Because that's what it sounds like you are implying.

You inferred something I didn't need to imply since it is implicit on its face! Sinners = damaged people. I don't believe nor is their scientific validity to saying homosexuals are born that way. I don't want to go on a tangent, but surprise, yet another freethinker post comes right off the topic at hand...

..."Real" homosexuals, not bisexuals or heterosexuals with some tendencies, are almost to a person either abused as a teen or pre-teen or experienced abandonment issues with a same sex parent... wait for it... here comes a flame attack from the homosexual who says "not me"... but who already has embedded issues of intense anger since they thrive on a forum whose main purpose is to denigrate God and God's followers...

Please cite the data that supports your statement. Otherwise, you are simply an ignorant bigot.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-06-2013, 09:44 AM
RE: Exodus International is history
(25-06-2013 08:20 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Homosexuals are damaged people? Because that's what it sounds like you are implying.

You inferred something I didn't need to imply since it is implicit on its face! Sinners = damaged people.

But . . . but . . . but . . . according to your theology, we're ALL sinners! Every one of us! And only Jesus can save us from roasting in hell for our sins. So therefore we're all damaged . . . right?

But if we're all damaged, every last one of us, does "damage" really have any meaning? Seems to me it would be a tad more convincing if there were some objective measure of "damage."

Oh wait. Psychologists tried that as far back as 1957. There was that famous study done by the psychologist Evelyn Hooker to rate the mental health of gay vs. straight men, and there was no difference. Remember that? Or did your pastor forget to mention it? Big Grin

Quote:..."Real" homosexuals, not bisexuals or heterosexuals with some tendencies, are almost to a person either abused as a teen or pre-teen or experienced abandonment issues with a same sex parent... wait for it... here comes a flame attack from the homosexual who says "not me"...

Not me. Cool

No flame attack (we've gotta be careful about flaming, y'know), but honestly, I have a fair number of close gay friends, and not one was abused as a teen or pre-teen. One guy did have abandonment issues with his father. But only one. So I'm wondering: from what reliable, objective source did you get your data?

Quote: . . . who already has embedded issues of intense anger since they thrive on a forum whose main purpose is to denigrate God and God's followers...

Well, it's kinda hard to denigrate something you don't believe exists, wouldn't you say? In any event, I think you misunderstand the purpose of a forum like this. It's basically a place where like-minded people get together. And yes, it's a haven for those who have been damaged--this time in a very real, objective sense--by religion. But if you take a look at some of the threads, I think you might find quite a few that have nothing at all to do with religion.

Which leads me to ask why you're here. Your preaching hasn't "saved" one single person, and there's every indication it never will. What's the point in sticking around a place where you're not wanted? Sounds a little masochistic to me. Even, dare I say . . . damaged? Wink

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25-06-2013, 09:56 AM
RE: Exodus International is history
(25-06-2013 08:20 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  ..."Real" homosexuals, not bisexuals or heterosexuals with some tendencies, are almost to a person either abused as a teen or pre-teen or experienced abandonment issues with a same sex parent...

This is simultaneously creating a No True Scotsman on the basis of farcical armchair psychoanalysis and explicitly recognizing the existence of homosexual 'tendencies' and bisexuality regardless (and what is a homosexual, surely, other than someone with more homosexual tendencies than heterosexual tendencies?).

That's... so dumb it's almost impressive. Congratulations.
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25-06-2013, 10:32 AM
RE: Exodus International is history
(25-06-2013 08:20 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  ..."Real" homosexuals, not bisexuals or heterosexuals with some tendencies, are almost to a person either abused as a teen or pre-teen or experienced abandonment issues with a same sex parent... wait for it... here comes a flame attack from the homosexual who says "not me"... but who already has embedded issues of intense anger since they thrive on a forum whose main purpose is to denigrate God and God's followers...

Don't worry about the gays, PJ, and leave the science to the scientists. It's you, and not homosexuals, who needs society's tolerance and understanding.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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25-06-2013, 11:18 AM
RE: Exodus International is history
(21-06-2013 09:34 AM)cufflink Wrote:  To be filed under "Goodbye and Good Riddance." This was the most prominent "pray away the gay" group in the world. A sign of the times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/21/us/gro...tions.html

(begin sarcasm)

Gee, what went wrong? We all know just how effective prayer can be... I'm shocked!

(end sarcasm)

Good riddance, is right. It sounds like their futile exercise may have taught them something though which is at least some good that came from it.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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