Exodus International is history
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
25-06-2013, 11:21 AM
RE: Exodus International is history
(24-06-2013 01:55 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  The problem is it isn't "pray the gay away".

It's counseling, healing life's hurts and past experiences and traumas, an exposure to whole, well people who are secure in their sexual identity, etc. "Pray the gay away" was a bad rubric to begin.

No, the problem is your line of thinking starts with the assumption that there is something wrong with homosexuality that needs correcting. And that's where you are incorrect. (Not to mention your lack of education on the subject.)

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Impulse's post
25-06-2013, 11:30 AM
RE: Exodus International is history
(22-06-2013 11:18 AM)kim Wrote:  Ex-gay. How could someone think that's even possible? Most especially how could someone think that's possible, when they themselves are ... gay?!

What the actual fuck!?

If anything is a "disease"... it is the mind frame that tells one, that one must be different than one actually is, simply because one is not like another.

***
The fact that this deplorable organization has shut down and apologized is great and long overdue.

However, the fact that another organization formed a year ago and is practically advertising itself in connection with this company's failure, reminds me of the catholic church moving their child molesting priests to other parishes.

When does the idea of fixing something that isn't broke, just fucking stop? When does that become the thing to be fixed?
When is the real delusion finally going to be addressed? Undecided
Fantastic post Kim! I especially like the parts I bolded.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-06-2013, 12:21 PM (This post was last modified: 25-06-2013 12:24 PM by ShirubaDangan.)
RE: Exodus International is history
(25-06-2013 08:20 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Are you implying that to be a homosexual one must have past traumas and not secure?

Homosexuals are damaged people? Because that's what it sounds like you are implying.

You inferred something I didn't need to imply since it is implicit on its face! Sinners = damaged people. I don't believe nor is their scientific validity to saying homosexuals are born that way. I don't want to go on a tangent, but surprise, yet another freethinker post comes right off the topic at hand...

..."Real" homosexuals, not bisexuals or heterosexuals with some tendencies, are almost to a person either abused as a teen or pre-teen or experienced abandonment issues with a same sex parent... wait for it... here comes a flame attack from the homosexual who says "not me"... but who already has embedded issues of intense anger since they thrive on a forum whose main purpose is to denigrate God and God's followers...





Here is a simple cartoon for you PleaseJesus. It is full of facts. Which also prove you are wrong. So would you change your opinion? Of course not! You don't want to change your opinion on reason! You basically want to just reaffirm your position instead of looking at facts and of course believe that science for some odd reason is against the entire faith community when it clearly isn't.

I also know homosexuals who are still religious so if you believe they are doing this in spite of God why are they still there? Also, if its true that homosexual people are bad why the hell do we not kill shrimp eaters!?

Leviticus 11:12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

And yet no one cares? Believe in your Bible! Hate those Joe Crab Shacks and Red Lobster places like you do gay people! Wait... Is it the fact that a lot of Chrisitian's enjoy shrimp and partake in doing this abomination that God calls it? Nah, no way that Christians can be that much of a hypocrite Angel

"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind." -John F Kennedy

The way to see by Faith is to shut the eye of Reason.” -Benjamin Franklin

It has been a long time. How have you been?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-06-2013, 02:11 PM
RE: Exodus International is history
Back in 1997, when I was thirty and a still-single Xian, I became worried that I might be gay. I'm kind of an OCD type of guy, and the prevailing "wisdom" of the time indicated that a person was either gay or straight (or perhaps bi). I had lousy luck romancing women, so I was scared that I might be a latent homosexual. An Xian friend asked me about it, and when I told him my fears he confided that he was in the same boat and that we should hang out and talk/pray/read about it. Thus began my foray into the world of Xian "ministry" to gays.

I read books by Leanne Payne, John White, John and Anne Paulk, Mel White, and Joe Dallas, among others. After a recommendation from my friend, I even booked a session with ex-gay counselor Jason Thompson at this place:

https://www.portlandfellowship.com/

After meeting with Jason at PF HQ, he concluded that I wasn't gay - just messed up relationally. He recommended that I seek counseling, avoid dating women that initiated pursuit of me, and move out of my parents' home (I had just finished my BA degree and gotten a job). I soon found my own apartment and began counseling with an Xian-based therapist.

As for my friend, it turned out he was truly gayer than pink ink, despite being a close associate of our pastor, conservative Xian, and staunch Republican. I had to distance myself from him because he became clingy, confessed that he fantasized about me sexually, and possibly tried to seduce me at the pastor's home while he was housesitting it. He also went wild in the gay scene, having numerous anonymous encounters and eventually becoming HIV-positive. To this day he still maintains a dual life, and it's his dishonesty and duplicity that ultimately drove a rift between us vs. his homosexuality.

At this point in my life, having never had sex with anyone, I've come to the conclusion that fall somewhere on the asexual/demisexual spectrum. I'm not sure why I was so worried about being gay - I don't find men attractive and I don't fantasize about them, but I find women attractive, even if I'm not into actually having sex with them (based on a series of recent articles about asexuality on the Huffington Post, I appear to be the kind of guy who needs to be in a secure, caring relationship with a woman before I'd have sex with her, also known as a Demisexual):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/asexuality

From what I heard and read about the ex-gay therapy setting during my research period, it was like having AA meetings in a bar - they'd create same-sex small groups that would end up driving the members loopy with mutual attraction. And of course, it was all based on homosexuality as a choice, whether it was due to it being a besetting sin, or brought on by issues with one's parents, or the result of spiritual damage, or demonic oppression due to involvement with porn, same-sex experimentation/molestation, and so on. Bottom line, I feel that the entire Xian response to homosexuality is a shameful thing, and all religious people should watch the following documentary:

http://www.amazon.com/For-The-Bible-Tell...ells+me+so

I've since read a number of books on sexuality in general, as well as watched some documentaries on the subject, and I've come to find the whole spectrum of sexuality quite fascinating. All these categories are kind of self-limiting in the end, as people are unique and everyone has their own approach to sex based on so many personal variables, experiences, hangups, proclivities, and so on. Hell, people think I'm weird because I'm a 46-year-old virgin, so who am I to judge anyone that is comfortable expressing themselves sexually?

In the end, I've come to the place where I feel that consenting adults should be able to be happy with each other regardless of gender. I can't say that I find all expressions of homosexuality wonderful, just as I'm kind of iffy towards BDSM and polyamory. But I'm working on that, and I stick up for their right to be together when my family (or others) puts them down. I also have a young female relative I'm friends with on Facebook who believes she may be a lesbian, so I strive to support her as a person in general because she's never told me about her proclivities; I've heard about them second-hand from her mom, who talks to my mom and brother.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Atheist_pilgrim's post
25-06-2013, 04:17 PM
RE: Exodus International is history
(25-06-2013 02:11 PM)Atheist_pilgrim Wrote:  I read books by Leanne Payne, John White, John and Anne Paulk, Mel White, and Joe Dallas, among others.

It's interesting that of the people on that "pray-away-the-gay" list, at least two have come over to the other side.

John Paulk was the poster-boy for the ex-gay movement, appearing with his wife Anne on the cover of Newsweek in 1998. Somewhat awkwardly, he was photographed in a Washington, DC gay bar a couple of years later. He initially explained he had just stopped in to use the rest room and didn't realize it was a gay bar. But the fundie organization he worked for, "Focus on the Family," where he was employed as manager of the Homosexuality and Gender Division, was not amused.

Fast forward to this year:

"In April 2013, Paulk disavowed his belief in gay reparative therapy, announcing that while he remains a devout Christian he also identifies as a gay (not formerly gay) man and believes that reparative therapy is both futile and harmful. He announced that his marriage is ending and he issued a formal apology for his role as an advocate of the movement."

The Wiki article didn't say how Anne feels about the whole thing.

As for Mel White, who was a ghostwriter for Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and Billy Graham until he came out, he's now one of the leading advocates of the "Gay is OK" movement in Christianity. He and his son Mike, the actor/writer/director who's also gay, were a team on the reality show "The Amazing Race."

At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if Kirk Cameron came out. Ya never know . . . Wink

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-06-2013, 05:01 PM
RE: Exodus International is history
The Kinsey Institute still collects orientation data for research, anyone can participate.

http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/research/ak-hhscale.html

http://vistriai.com/kinseyscaletest/

http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/research/current.html

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-06-2013, 02:53 PM
RE: Exodus International is history
Quote:No, the problem is your line of thinking starts with the assumption that there is something wrong with homosexuality that needs correcting. And that's where you are incorrect. (Not to mention your lack of education on the subject.)

My mother's best friend was one of the first persons diagnosed with the AIDS virus (and who died from it) back in the day. The bridesmaid at my wedding was a lesbian, and my brother-in-law is a homosexual. I have a clinical education on the subject as well (I worked for some years as a sex educator for a major nonprofit education organization).

No, let me give you one example of something "wrong" with homosexuality. Two gays who love one another can never bear one another's children. They need more than a birthing surrogate, they need to introduce someone's genetic material to one of theirs, not both of theirs, to bear children. I'm shocked at the phony tolerance of freethinkers, who assert to a person that Evolution is fully reality, when every sincere Evolutionist would say that homosexuality is not a trait of survivability amongst individual members of a species.

No, both hearts are broken when children are desired, and Evolution demands that homosexuals have something "wrong" with them. Be consistent.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-06-2013, 03:15 PM (This post was last modified: 26-06-2013 03:34 PM by Atheist_pilgrim.)
RE: Exodus International is history
(26-06-2013 02:53 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  No, let me give you one example of something "wrong" with homosexuality. Two gays who love one another can never bear one another's children. They need more than a birthing surrogate, they need to introduce someone's genetic material to one of theirs, not both of theirs, to bear children. I'm shocked at the phony tolerance of freethinkers, who assert to a person that Evolution is fully reality, when every sincere Evolutionist would say that homosexuality is not a trait of survivability amongst individual members of a species.

No, both hearts are broken when children are desired, and Evolution demands that homosexuals have something "wrong" with them. Be consistent.

Dude, you are so full of shit your eyes are brown. From Wikipedia, on homosexuality:

Quote:Evolutionary perspectives

The authors of a 2008 study stated "there is considerable evidence that human sexual orientation is genetically influenced, so it is not known how homosexuality, which tends to lower reproductive success, is maintained in the population at a relatively high frequency". They hypothesized that "while genes predisposing to homosexuality reduce homosexuals' reproductive success, they may confer some advantage in heterosexuals who carry them". Their results suggested that "genes predisposing to homosexuality may confer a mating advantage in heterosexuals, which could help explain the evolution and maintenance of homosexuality in the population".[151] A 2009 study also suggested a significant increase in fecundity in the females related to the homosexual people from the maternal line (but not in those related from the paternal one).[152]

A review paper by Bailey and Zuk looking into studies of same-sex sexual behaviour in animals challenges the view that such behaviour lowers reproductive success, citing several hypotheses about how same-sex sexual behavior might be adaptive; these hypotheses vary greatly among different species. Bailey and Zuk also suggest future research needs to look into evolutionary consequences of same-sex sexual behaviour, rather than only looking into origins of such behaviour.[153]

I've read about other studies that suggest a homosexual sibling/uncle/aunt in the family might be an evolutionary bonus because they can act as a supplementary caregiver for the family's primary breeders, thus helping to guarantee genetic reproduction.

As for homosexuals not being able to have kids? Give me a break. Ever heard of adoption, surrogates, or artificial insemination? A gay man can pass his genes on via a female surrogate, and a lesbian can pass on her genes via artificial insemination. Plus, there are no guarantees that hetero couples can conceive anyway, which is why in vitro and other infertility techniques have been created - by science, not by god, the supposed mighty womb opener/closer.

Get with the 21st century, chief. But then again, since we've always had gay people in the population, somehow they keep getting born the old fashioned way! Where's god in that mix - doesn't he form us in the womb, according to the bible? Maybe since Jesus never said anything about homosexuality, never got married, and hung out with a bunch of guys, he had no problem with it...hmmmmm.Consider

Oh, and before you slam gays as parents (also from Wiki):

Scientific research has been generally consistent in showing that lesbian and gay parents are as fit and capable as heterosexual parents, and their children are as psychologically healthy and well-adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents.[166][167][168] According to scientific literature reviews, there is no evidence to the contrary.[2][169][170][171][172]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Atheist_pilgrim's post
26-06-2013, 04:11 PM
RE: Exodus International is history
(26-06-2013 02:53 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:No, the problem is your line of thinking starts with the assumption that there is something wrong with homosexuality that needs correcting. And that's where you are incorrect. (Not to mention your lack of education on the subject.)

My mother's best friend was one of the first persons diagnosed with the AIDS virus (and who died from it) back in the day. The bridesmaid at my wedding was a lesbian, and my brother-in-law is a homosexual. I have a clinical education on the subject as well (I worked for some years as a sex educator for a major nonprofit education organization).

No, let me give you one example of something "wrong" with homosexuality. Two gays who love one another can never bear one another's children. They need more than a birthing surrogate, they need to introduce someone's genetic material to one of theirs, not both of theirs, to bear children. I'm shocked at the phony tolerance of freethinkers, who assert to a person that Evolution is fully reality, when every sincere Evolutionist would say that homosexuality is not a trait of survivability amongst individual members of a species.

No, both hearts are broken when children are desired, and Evolution demands that homosexuals have something "wrong" with them. Be consistent.
A clinical degree does not equal a clinical education and even a clinical education does not equal a complete education on this subject.

It is true that homosexuals cannot independently bear their own children. But the conclusion that homosexuality is "wrong" (in any sense of the word - morally wrong, incorrect, etc.) doesn't follow from that. A deaf person can't hear. Would you say therefore it's "wrong" if they dance while music plays? Ears were designed for hearing and, by your logic, if you can't hear, why use them at all? And don't even think about wearing earrings because that's not natural so it must be wrong too, right? Why do you think the inability to reach one desired outcome makes it "wrong" to engage in an activity for another desired outcome?

As for AIDS, if you think that makes homosexuality wrong, then heterosexuality must be wrong too because of all the venereal diseases...

Evolution has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion despite your broad reaching attempt to make it fit.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-06-2013, 04:35 PM
RE: Exodus International is history
(26-06-2013 02:53 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  No, let me give you one example of something "wrong" with homosexuality. Two gays who love one another can never bear one another's children. They need more than a birthing surrogate, they need to introduce someone's genetic material to one of theirs, not both of theirs, to bear children. I'm shocked at the phony tolerance of freethinkers, who assert to a person that Evolution is fully reality, when every sincere Evolutionist would say that homosexuality is not a trait of survivability amongst individual members of a species.

No, both hearts are broken when children are desired, and Evolution demands that homosexuals have something "wrong" with them. Be consistent.

Birth parents aside, don't you know anything about adoption? Do you know how adoption has positively effected the flow of genetic material on this planet?
Your naiveté is laughable. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes kim's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: