Explanation for electrical sensation during "healing" meeting
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22-12-2012, 11:50 AM
RE: Explanation for electrical sensation during "healing" meeting
(22-12-2012 11:42 AM)Flowergurl Wrote:  
(22-12-2012 11:33 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  Here is a link to many stories about how dishonest religious leaders can be. http://www.atheistunderworld.com/page/39/.

This one is just good for laughs. I would speculate that given the nature of blogs these days, the writer is probably making money off conspiracy theorists. http://this-present-crisis.blogspot.com/...ntrol.html

I found this to be quite shocking, but not at all a surprise. "


Q25

09-12-04, 09:04 PM

*************
M*W: I've been thinking about the televangelists who touch people and make them fall down. Up to now, I always thought that they were just enactments. Now, I'm wondering if these evangelists are using some form of electric shock. The use of electricity in medicine is an old cure-all. Could they be doing this with an exposed wire taped to their hand but grounded so they won't feel anything? Just a thought. Any comments?
from http://www.atheists.org ..click atheism/religion/hypnosis,music

...Many faith-healing practitioners of hypnosis induce trance-like receptiveness in their prey by physically stunning them. They "lay on hands." Starting with their hands on the crown of the victim's head, they utter their hypnotic suggestions (i.e. "prayers") while gradually moving their hands down the side of the person's head. Finally, when their hands are on the person's neck and ears, they will suddenly put pressure on the nerve-rich cavity behind the ear and on the carotid sinus farther down the neck. This stuns and disorients the victim, and he or she becomes very imprintable. The verbal suggestions of the healer become implanted within as little as two or three seconds.

Of course, this does not always work. If the person being "healed" has a weak cardiovascular system, or if the "healer" presses on the carotid sinus too long, cardiac arrest may result and god cheats the evangelist out of the poor bloke's money. At least one notorious faith healer of our day has given up the practice because of this embarrassing and expensive side-effect. The reader must realize, this method of inducing hypnosis is extremely dangerous, and no competent practitioner will employ it. Only religionists still flirt with it." It came from this site http://www.sciforums.com/Do-televangelis...40711.html.



Here is one talking about the "Baghdad battery". It would not surprise me one bit if these were batteries. Furthermore the egyptians built similar objects too. This would have been perfect to get people to believe that were unfamiliar with electricity and technology. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery



Also back in the day and still somewhat now, the standards for evidence were low. Kind of like playing scrabble without a dictionary. Let's say you have an object and we'll call it the ark of the covenant. The object is hollow inside and can house several of these crude batteries. You are a high priest and allow followers in to touch the object and they receive small shocks from it. You know and maybe a few of the people of slightly lower rank know that the shocks are provided by the batteries. Any questions by your followers have to be dealt with by encouraging other followers to cut the one questioning faith out of their lives. You can also acuse the questioner of being a witch and have them executed. The one thing you cannot allow is for someone that is not part of your conspiracy to open the object and see the truth. These days some people are much harder to fool, due to the easy access to information.


Thanks for this, because it really was an electrical, warming feeling and I also heard this buzzing sound as it surged through my head. It was when he put his hands over my ears. So it was either static or that strange hypnosis effect. I remember telling one of my non-believer friends about my true-to-life testimony of feeling God's power and he actually said, "Are you sure there wasn't something on the preacher's hands?" Haha. Now, years later, I believe him!
Also, the thing that finally dawned on me about a month ago was, why give someone feeling in their head and then not actually heal anyone? Confused


It sounds to me like you are starting to become more logical. Welcome to the forum. I hope you enjoy your time here and maybe learn a few new things.
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22-12-2012, 12:37 PM
RE: Explanation for electrical sensation during "healing" meeting
I was going to post some Derren Brown clips but I see it's already been done.

Other than that, I was just going to say emotions, power of suggestion, and hypnotic states. The brain is capable of producing all sorts of weird feelings, especially if it expects something to happen. That doesn't mean such feelings/states are evidence of the supernatural, though people who believe in the supernatural are likely to interpret them that way.
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22-12-2012, 01:22 PM
RE: Explanation for electrical sensation during "healing" meeting
I did some more research and for that studies have been done on the human body involving electrical current. Link here http://www.hubbellpowersystems.com/liter...801-02.pdf

Here is an article talking about the electric chair and how it came to be. The article shows that it is harder to kill someone with direct current. They might be using DC to cause these feelings of current flowing through you, as you can see from the chart the effects of AC. http://inventors.about.com/od/hstartinve..._Chair.htm



"Though both AC and DC currents and shock are lethal, more DC current is required to have the same effect as AC current. For example, if you are being electrocuted or shocked 0.5 to 1.5 milliamps of AC 60 Hz current is required and up to 4 mA of DC current is required. For the let-go threshold in AC a current of 3 to 22 mA is required against 15 to 88 of DC current." this quote came from http://www.brighthubengineering.com/powe...omparison/ this website.

It shows clearly that it takes more dc current to have the same effect as AC. Imo it is more than likely that they have experimented with dc and found a voltage and current that works.
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22-12-2012, 01:40 PM (This post was last modified: 22-12-2012 01:45 PM by ShirubaDangan.)
RE: Explanation for electrical sensation during "healing" meeting




Electricity didn't convince Adam Savage.

I am just worried about certain preachers. I believe some are perfect snake oil salesmen. I wouldn't trust them. Here is an example of how crafty they are.








"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind." -John F Kennedy

The way to see by Faith is to shut the eye of Reason.” -Benjamin Franklin

It has been a long time. How have you been?
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22-12-2012, 02:11 PM
RE: Explanation for electrical sensation during "healing" meeting
Very crafty indeed. That explains why some preachers have this "manifestation" flowing through their hands while others, like my old Pastor, do not. He was left wondering "Why doesn't it work for me?" He did not discover the DC current, I guess.
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22-12-2012, 02:24 PM
RE: Explanation for electrical sensation during "healing" meeting
(22-12-2012 01:40 PM)ShirubaDangan Wrote:  I am just worried about certain preachers. I believe some are perfect snake oil salesmen.
This. And, for some people, it only takes one event where they feel some kind of "spiritual presence" or witness a "miracle" to become a lifelong believer in woo.
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22-12-2012, 02:28 PM
RE: Explanation for electrical sensation during "healing" meeting
(22-12-2012 02:11 PM)Flowergurl Wrote:  Very crafty indeed. That explains why some preachers have this "manifestation" flowing through their hands while others, like my old Pastor, do not. He was left wondering "Why doesn't it work for me?" He did not discover the DC current, I guess.

Some people can sincerely believe that they are faith healers too. The process is quite simple.

Person goes to pastor with problem.
Pastor prays.
50% of the time problem gets randomly fixed.
Person attributes it to pastor.
Pastor thinks "it works! God wants to heal people through me"...

Once this thought pattern is there it's quite difficult to let it go. They may believe that when it doesn't work God is testing them or they didn't do the ritual right or God didn't want to heal that particular person.

These are the good guys. Dumb, but good.

Then there are the genuine snake oil salesmen. ASSHOLES.
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22-12-2012, 02:37 PM
RE: Explanation for electrical sensation during "healing" meeting
(22-12-2012 02:28 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(22-12-2012 02:11 PM)Flowergurl Wrote:  Very crafty indeed. That explains why some preachers have this "manifestation" flowing through their hands while others, like my old Pastor, do not. He was left wondering "Why doesn't it work for me?" He did not discover the DC current, I guess.

Some people can sincerely believe that they are faith healers too. The process is quite simple.

Person goes to pastor with problem.
Pastor prays.
50% of the time problem gets randomly fixed.
Person attributes it to pastor.
Pastor thinks "it works! God wants to heal people through me"...

Once this thought pattern is there it's quite difficult to let it go. They may believe that when it doesn't work God is testing them or they didn't do the ritual right or God didn't want to heal that particular person.

These are the good guys. Dumb, but good.

Then there are the genuine snake oil salesmen. ASSHOLES.

Yes, it was actually painful to watch my ex Pastor announce the death of the young guy we had praying for, for over a year. He could hardly stand it and could barely talk. I could see in his eyes, he was thinking "Why?" Yup. There are too many explanations that will lead them to believe that it actually works for them.
I think many of them are genuine. He actually left his career as a real estate lawyer to be a Pastor, and his life has been difficult ever since.
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22-12-2012, 02:39 PM
RE: Explanation for electrical sensation during "healing" meeting
(22-12-2012 02:24 PM)amyb Wrote:  
(22-12-2012 01:40 PM)ShirubaDangan Wrote:  I am just worried about certain preachers. I believe some are perfect snake oil salesmen.
This. And, for some people, it only takes one event where they feel some kind of "spiritual presence" or witness a "miracle" to become a lifelong believer in woo.
Could be, but most of the time when this happens to an already "grounded" Christian, it is just another piece of evidence. Or, so I had thought it was. I was 15 and a huge day dreamer so I was an ideal candidate for the whole thing.
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22-12-2012, 02:44 PM
RE: Explanation for electrical sensation during "healing" meeting
(22-12-2012 02:28 PM)morondog Wrote:  Some people can sincerely believe that they are faith healers too. The process is quite simple.

Person goes to pastor with problem.
Pastor prays.
50% of the time problem gets randomly fixed.
Person attributes it to pastor.
Pastor thinks "it works! God wants to heal people through me"...

Once this thought pattern is there it's quite difficult to let it go. They may believe that when it doesn't work God is testing them or they didn't do the ritual right or God didn't want to heal that particular person.

These are the good guys. Dumb, but good.

Then there are the genuine snake oil salesmen. ASSHOLES.
Yep, and that's the problem with unverifiable claims of woo. Confirmation bias. They totally forget the 50% of the time when nothing happened. Same goes for anybody praying, going to statues with alleged healing powers, witch doctors, whatever.

What I've witnessed is that a lot of super religious people I know have one or two instances where they think woo is involved, and then they start interpreting every fucking other thing in the world as woo of some sort. And then I can't even have a meaningful conversation with them. Like my uncle was delirious and on his death bed hallucinating, and the cousin thinks it's proof of the afterlife. Some people interpret the evidence to fit their preexisting beliefs.
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