Exploring: Fact/Fiction
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24-04-2013, 05:38 AM
Exploring: Fact/Fiction
I wanted to find a place where I could express my beliefs, doubts, and personal opinions on "religion" - in the hope that maybe some of the more experienced and wiser members of this site could perhaps enlighten me...

I have always been a Christian. I was baptised shortly after birth, and inducted into the Catholic Church, I've prayed all my life, been to church, experienced 1st hand a "spiritual healing" and felt "the Holy Spirit" in times of despair.

I am also scientifically minded, and while I do not accept the Old Testament as absolute truth, more a theological anthology with parables and old stories that have guided morality since the dawn of modern-humankind, I do believe in something.

Some years ago, I took the most powerful LSD I had ever experienced. It showed me that the mind is a mysterious thing. I truly physically and spiritually experienced feelings that I had never felt before, and have not since.

What this showed me, and most scientists would agree, is that the perception of a human being is limited - often BY your own brain - and that our Universe is made of theoretical particles (Dark Matter mainly) that the human brain cannot ever truly perceive or understand.

Could What people have called "God" for millennia, really exist in a form to which the human brain has not yet, and maybe never will, truly comprehend?

I also watched "Zeitgeist" which explored the astrological influences to the bible, as well as the mythology of both Biblical Testaments.

Which shook me.

I have heard that the power of prayer has statistically been proven to help patients under medical care, when an opposite group who were not prayed for, fared somewhat worse.

People now ask "the universe" to provide their blessings. Is this not still a form of God worship? Have human beings just slowly progressed from worshipping the sun and moon to now worshipping the infinite universe to which have now all become so accustomed?

Should I just jack in this idea of a God and Saviour? And if I did, would I not just become another member if an alternative "church", where nature and science are worshipped, so similarly to the "word of God"
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24-04-2013, 05:56 AM
RE: Exploring: Fact/Fiction
(24-04-2013 05:38 AM)DapperDannyD Wrote:  I also watched "Zeitgeist" which explored the astrological influences to the bible, as well as the mythology of both Biblical Testaments.

Which shook me.

We had the strongest earthquake in my life last May. Now that really shook me.

Quote:I have heard that the power of prayer has statistically been proven to help patients under medical care, when an opposite group who were not prayed for, fared somewhat worse.

And I have heard that if you say Bloody Mary three times in a row, while in a bar, a nice man will bring you a tasty red drink. Go figure. I've even heard it works if you only say it once. Blink

Quote:Should I just jack in this idea of a God and Saviour? And if I did, would I not just become another member if an alternative "church", where nature and science are worshipped, so similarly to the "word of God"

You cannot worship a method. And that's what science is. A means to discover knowledge. Nothing more, nothing less. There isn't anything sacred about it. There isn't anything sacred about anything. The word sacred itself is mostly devoid of meaning. And subsequently, so is the verb "to worship".

So it really doesn't make much difference what people are "worshipping" - it's a pointless process that accomplishes nothing and serves no purpose, other than to waste the precious little time we have on this Earth.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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24-04-2013, 07:01 AM
RE: Exploring: Fact/Fiction
(24-04-2013 05:56 AM)Vera Wrote:  So it really doesn't make much difference what people are "worshipping" - it's a pointless process that accomplishes nothing and serves no purpose, other than to waste the precious little time we have on this Earth.

I love my Gwynnies! Big Grin

Updating my Gwynnies fb gets me bouncing around the house like an idiot, radiating Heart How is that a waste of time? Tongue

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24-04-2013, 07:15 AM
RE: Exploring: Fact/Fiction
(24-04-2013 07:01 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Updating my Gwynnies fb gets me bouncing around the house like an idiot, radiating Heart How is that a waste of time? Tongue
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"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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24-04-2013, 07:20 AM
RE: Exploring: Fact/Fiction
(24-04-2013 05:38 AM)DapperDannyD Wrote:  I have heard that the power of prayer has statistically been proven to help patients under medical care, when an opposite group who were not prayed for, fared somewhat worse.

I would like to come into this on this note in particular.

That is an interesting claim, I have only ever seen the opposite results; Prayer having shown no positive effects to those under medical care when compared to those who were not being prayed for.

It is is unlikely for prayer to actually affect anything outside of a persons mind; The only positive benefit it could give would be limited to placebo effects; Person X might feel better, but nothing has actually changed in the slightest.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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24-04-2013, 07:32 AM
RE: Exploring: Fact/Fiction
(24-04-2013 07:20 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(24-04-2013 05:38 AM)DapperDannyD Wrote:  I have heard that the power of prayer has statistically been proven to help patients under medical care, when an opposite group who were not prayed for, fared somewhat worse.

I would like to come into this on this note in particular.

That is an interesting claim, I have only ever seen the opposite results; Prayer having shown no positive effects to those under medical care when compared to those who were not being prayed for.

It is is unlikely for prayer to actually affect anything outside of a persons mind; The only positive benefit it could give would be limited to placebo effects; Person X might feel better, but nothing has actually changed in the slightest.

Knew somebody would get on that. Thumbsup

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24-04-2013, 07:48 AM
RE: Exploring: Fact/Fiction
@freethought

In my own experience with a faith healer, I received nothing but bad luck.

Subsequent to my encounter with him, I lost a job, my relationship broke down, and I lost my home!

That was not a faith-regenerating experience!

I believe that the power of positive "thought" is not dissimilar to the power of prayer / asking the universe for one thing or another / engaging what is perhaps a collective consciousness that may well link ALL of us together...

Maybe the human brain is more powerful than we know or can understand?

I was looking for answers and all I found were more questions!!

And you're right, a quick look around has shown me that more recent studies indicated no positives from "the power of prayer" and that in some cases it had a detrimental effect on patients' recovery as they were, in a way, relying on prayer to help them heel.

From the New York Times:


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health...d=all&_r=0

Thanks for all your comments, they're greatly appreciated x
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24-04-2013, 08:24 AM
RE: Exploring: Fact/Fiction
(24-04-2013 07:48 AM)DapperDannyD Wrote:  I was looking for answers and all I found were more questions!!

Welcome to the dark side. Evil_monster

That's how - and why - science works. Thumbsup

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24-04-2013, 08:30 AM
RE: Exploring: Fact/Fiction
(24-04-2013 07:48 AM)DapperDannyD Wrote:  I believe that the power of positive "thought" is not dissimilar to the power of prayer / asking the universe for one thing or another / engaging what is perhaps a collective consciousness that may well link ALL of us together...

I'd go even further and say they are pretty much the same. All those things are non-existent.

Quote:I was looking for answers and all I found were more questions!!

This realisation is good a place to start from as any. Thumbsup




"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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24-04-2013, 09:10 AM
RE: Exploring: Fact/Fiction
(24-04-2013 05:38 AM)DapperDannyD Wrote:  I've prayed all my life, been to church, experienced 1st hand a "spiritual healing" and felt "the Holy Spirit" in times of despair.

As a prophet, my preliminary hypothesis is electromagnetic communication. I've done "faith healing;" now I don't fuck with it. The only value to being a faith healer is self-aggrandizement, and as my Gwynnies is already taken...

So! It would be much better to understand the mechanism involved. The placebo effect may actually be derivative of faith and electromagnetics. Consider

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