Exploring the Supernatural
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09-06-2011, 11:24 AM
Exploring the Supernatural
I've had some ideas rattling around in my head, and I think they've congealed enough to try to explain them.

The supernatural is, by definition, outside of the natural world. But let's my, hypothetically, the the idea of the Multiverse is correct, and there are many universes, with different natural laws than our own. So, when we say the supernatural is outside of the natural world, are we talking about our natural world, or any world dictated by laws(can there be supernatural laws, or is any basic law of a universe a natural law)? If this is the case, then wouldn't a supernatural God be dictated by natural laws, just not our own? And if not, if a supernatural world is not dictated by any natural laws, how could such a universe exist? Can a universe exist without any natural laws? Are the principles of logic confined to our universe, or natural universes in general, meaning that a supernatural world with no laws of natural could also have no laws of logic? My basic question, the thing I've been trying to figure out, is when you dive into the word "supernatural" and all it's implications, what does it mean?

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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09-06-2011, 12:02 PM
RE: Exploring the Supernatural
My head hurts just by reading that passage, but I'm dwelling over more or less the same these days.

"Never underestimate how narrow-minded, petty and stupid people can be". Mark Fulton, forum member
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10-06-2011, 04:33 PM
RE: Exploring the Supernatural
Semantics.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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10-06-2011, 06:23 PM
RE: Exploring the Supernatural
Well, the fun thing to think about within this question is that a supernatural world, even a chaotic one would be quite natural to the inhabitants. We would be their supernatural. As the definition is similar to, something defying the logic that dictates the natural world. So while we might call some weird supernatural beings gods, they are probably normally thought of as nerds, who in their right mind would waste their time messing with the lives of a (stated by humans) inferior race from an unknown dimension?

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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13-06-2011, 11:30 AM
Smile RE: Exploring the Supernatural
I am sure we would be supernatural to them, vice verse. But is it possible to have a alternate universe?Undecided

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14-06-2011, 09:59 AM
RE: Exploring the Supernatural
(13-06-2011 11:30 AM)tazmin98 Wrote:  I am sure we would be supernatural to them, vice verse. But is it possible to have a alternate universe?Undecided

It's an idea floating around, but I believe it lacks evidence. Google "Multiverse" or "Meta-universe" for more.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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14-06-2011, 11:51 AM
RE: Exploring the Supernatural
I think that supernatural is by definition impossible. I define nature as "everything that exists". Obviously, if something exists that it is natural, part of nature. SO what is beyond nature (supernatural) cannot exists. Problem solved Big Grin

..."we can be truly free - not because we can rebel against the the tyranny of the selfish replicators but because we know that there is no one to rebel."
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14-06-2011, 08:39 PM
RE: Exploring the Supernatural
(14-06-2011 11:51 AM)TheSelfishGene Wrote:  I think that supernatural is by definition impossible. I define nature as "everything that exists". Obviously, if something exists that it is natural, part of nature. SO what is beyond nature (supernatural) cannot exists. Problem solved Big Grin

That's the way I traditionally see it. I wrote a longer version of this elsewhere where I had to do some reconciling and came to the conclusion that the only (likely) way the supernatural can exist in any sense is just to say that it is a different universe but still have natural ways. So, outside of our natural world, not a natural world.

Someone commented and made an interesting point; if we are using the word supernatural to mean outside our universe, then we would be supernatural being to any other universe.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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13-07-2011, 12:07 PM
RE: Exploring the Supernatural
... And then, there is the problem of multiple universes: if it exists, is it not all part of The Universe? In another room of the universe, so to speak? Orin the universe's mirror? The parallel timeline sort of multiverse, where everything that could happen does happen in one of them, all are governed by a single set of natural laws, so none woul be supernatural. And if a mirror or other room universe existed, that would be governed by some kind of laws, because matter/space/energy/time isn't very good at random structures; those laws would be para-natural or versa-natural, not super-.

On reflection, though, isn't there enough to explore in this universe?

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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13-07-2011, 01:55 PM
RE: Exploring the Supernatural
Interesting question? Hmmm. One way that the multi-verse hypothesis (concept? A hypothesis indicates it is testable but is this?) is that each of the natural laws would potentially vary (by natural laws I mean the laws that exist in our natural world). These laws would vary in other verses(?) but would still be present. So the nuclear force might me stronger or weaker, gravity may be -5 m/s^2 instead of -9.8m/s^2, the speed of light might be 500 m/s instead of 3x10^8 m/s. This is how I understand it anyways. This could mean that the formation of stars, planets, atoms and anything else would be very different from our own since a new set of constants exist. I think the primary point is that natural laws would still exist but they would differ as far as their magnitude and potentially direction (imagine gravity being a repulsive force!). I have no idea if this is an accurate portrayal (not a physicist) but it sounds good!

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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