Explosions in Brussels
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24-03-2016, 01:29 PM
RE: Explosions in Brussels
(24-03-2016 06:49 AM)yakherder Wrote:  Jail can be problematic. Put a terrorist conspirator in general population and watch a bunch of self proclaimed Muslims, generally more interested in dealing drugs than adhering to their faith, get converted into jihadi wannabes. Try putting the problem child into solitary when he hasn't actually violated any rules based only off your knowledge of what he's up to, and by the end of the week you're in the newspaper with his lawyers and the general public throwing a fit about him being mistreated and demanding he be put back into general population.

End result: The individual is not only not rehabilitated, but creates 80 more and is empowered by his newfound status as their leader. I watched this scenario play out when I worked in corrections.

This is a growing problem in UK prisons.

Lots of troubled teens swapping out their old gang for a new one because their new one offers something other than brotherhood; paradise.

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24-03-2016, 01:31 PM
RE: Explosions in Brussels
(24-03-2016 01:27 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  
(24-03-2016 06:20 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Iron was once the weapon of mass destruction.

False equivalent.

Not really.

The barrier to entry, so to speak, for what we now call weapons of "mass destruction" is inevitably lowered as technology progresses. The subjective qualitative difference that makes something a "mass" weapon is in many ways not different than the subjective qualitative difference separating past military technologies from their contemporaneous environments.

The technologies and devices aren't going to go away. So where does that leave us?

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24-03-2016, 02:02 PM
RE: Explosions in Brussels
(24-03-2016 01:31 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(24-03-2016 01:27 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  False equivalent.

Not really.

The barrier to entry, so to speak, for what we now call weapons of "mass destruction" is inevitably lowered as technology progresses. The subjective qualitative difference that makes something a "mass" weapon is in many ways not different than the subjective qualitative difference separating past military technologies from their contemporaneous environments.

The technologies and devices aren't going to go away. So where does that leave us?

Yeah, as soon as I posted that I gave it a bit more thought and kind of disagree with myself.

I think what separates past WMD's to modern, then, is its ability to cripple the environment.

I don't think it's human loss that changes much.

In that case, my previous comment is kind of redundant.

Also as technology advances so do defensive capabilities.

Example being that the Iron dome is to warheads what the shield was to the arrow, so to say.

Although the ability to DEPLOY said weapons may be the thing that makes WMD's in the present a lot more threatening than those of the past.

I'm confused, help.

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24-03-2016, 02:06 PM
RE: Explosions in Brussels
In 1993 the Rwandan government ordered almost 600,000 machetes from China that would have been considered shitty weapons even by bronze age standards.

And everyone lived happily ever after.

The end.

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24-03-2016, 02:11 PM
RE: Explosions in Brussels
(24-03-2016 02:02 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  Yeah, as soon as I posted that I gave it a bit more thought and kind of disagree with myself.

I think what separates past WMD's to modern, then, is its ability to cripple the environment.

I don't think it's human loss that changes much.

In that case, my previous comment is kind of redundant.

Also as technology advances so do defensive capabilities.

Example being that the Iron dome is to warheads what the shield was to the arrow, so to say.

Although the ability to DEPLOY said weapons may be the thing that makes WMD's in the present a lot more threatening than those of the past.

I'm confused, help.

Well, it's true that the 'damage' (we can leave that vague) a small group of dedicated people can do has increased by a large margin, we also don't see people actually doing the kinds of things that would be most effective from an infrastructure (human or otherwise) point of view. Terrorism is in part a media-driven phenomenon. Salting a water supply with bioactive radioisotopes would cause a lot of harm but has no visibility whatsoever.

But there's no perfect defense, and the capability will continue to advance and proliferate. I really don't see any way around that.

Which is part of the reason I've always said it's at least as important to worry about why people are doing things as about what they're doing.

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24-03-2016, 02:17 PM
RE: Explosions in Brussels
(24-03-2016 02:06 PM)yakherder Wrote:  In 1993 the Rwandan government ordered almost 600,000 machetes from China that would have been considered shitty weapons even by bronze age standards.

And everyone lived happily ever after.

The end.

Clap

The guns were rather more important.

How bringing up only the machetes relates to historical depictions of African peoples, I make no comment.

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24-03-2016, 02:41 PM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2016 02:44 PM by Chas.)
RE: Explosions in Brussels
(24-03-2016 02:17 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(24-03-2016 02:06 PM)yakherder Wrote:  In 1993 the Rwandan government ordered almost 600,000 machetes from China that would have been considered shitty weapons even by bronze age standards.

And everyone lived happily ever after.

The end.

Clap

The guns were rather more important.

How bringing up only the machetes relates to historical depictions of African peoples, I make no comment.

The militia overwhelmingly used machetes to kill as only army and police had guns, and they may have done the majority of the killing.

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24-03-2016, 02:46 PM
RE: Explosions in Brussels
(24-03-2016 02:41 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-03-2016 02:17 PM)cjlr Wrote:  The guns were rather more important.

How bringing up only the machetes relates to historical depictions of African peoples, I make no comment.

The militia overwhelmingly used machetes to kill as only army and police had guns, and they may have done the majority of the killing.

Guns were purposefully shipped out to militia beforehand. And if you don't count the knives, and clubs, and stones, and fists, and fire... Hell, that link more or less says what I have.
(ie, from that site: "In the two years prior to the killings in Rwanda the country imported one hundred million dollars worth of military weapons.")

Who cares?

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24-03-2016, 02:49 PM
RE: Explosions in Brussels
(24-03-2016 02:41 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-03-2016 02:17 PM)cjlr Wrote:  The guns were rather more important.

How bringing up only the machetes relates to historical depictions of African peoples, I make no comment.

The militia overwhelmingly used machetes to kill as only army and police had guns, and they may have done the majority of the killing.

I guess you have to be dedicated to kill somebody with a machete......

Some friends of mine did some time in the Peace Corps in the Solomon Islands -- and they said there weren't many guns -- but everybody had a machete.... Saturday nights the hospital emergency rooms filled up with locals who'd hacked each other up with machetes --- but they rarely killed each other......


go figure....

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24-03-2016, 03:06 PM
RE: Explosions in Brussels
(24-03-2016 01:31 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(24-03-2016 01:27 PM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  False equivalent.

Not really.

Read history. Arrows and stirrups too. How many did the Mongols kill? Certainly more than died at Hiroshima.

Note. I am not claiming other weapons of mass destruction are not what they are. Simply adding context.

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I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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