Explosions in Brussels
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23-03-2016, 01:23 AM (This post was last modified: 23-03-2016 01:54 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Explosions in Brussels
(22-03-2016 09:36 PM)LunarDiscord Wrote:  As for the infection in Europe. It's difficult. Really, really difficult. All the solutions I can come up with to remove ISIL from Europe are horrendously third-reichy. However.. it may be necessary, in the end.

Infection? Talk about charged language.

Also how big exactly is ISIL presence in Europe and why do you think that they can't be dealt with using civilized means?

(22-03-2016 09:36 PM)LunarDiscord Wrote:  I also wonder what they do with the suspected terrorists they captured during police raids.

I hope they do what law states they should do.

(22-03-2016 09:36 PM)LunarDiscord Wrote:  I do hope they realize they can never be allowed back into daylight again, though the EU is probably too spineless to give them life in prison or an electric chair.

I hope trial of people responsible would be just and in full accordance with the law. Rule of law is of paramount importance. Also you do realize that capital punishment is illegal in member states of EU?

Spinelessness? So Europe should resort to trampling rule of law to avoid being called spineless?

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23-03-2016, 03:29 AM
RE: Explosions in Brussels
Man's epitaph:

We knew how to kill.

We knew how to die.

We killed.

We died.

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23-03-2016, 03:36 AM
RE: Explosions in Brussels
(22-03-2016 05:13 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(22-03-2016 04:50 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Ethics?
Ok let me put this into an ethical context for you.

ISIS kill innocent people.
Killing innocent people is bad.
Killing innocent people makes you a murderer.
Killing ISIS stops them killing innocent people.
Thus, killing ISIS is morally good because you eliminate the negative moralness of innocent people being murdered and no negative moral is created in the process because ISIS are murderous fucks.

Is that ethical enough for you or do I need to spell it out further?

Anti-abortion people feel exactly the same about women and clinics. That thinking process is not necessarily ethical at all.

They are wrong. Their argument revolves around the idea that a human being is created at the exact moment of fertilization. There is a reason why abortion is only available in a limited time period during a womens pregnancy, it's to avoid killing innocent unborn babies.

The facts surround the abortion debate revolve around many factors.
This does not. This is very clear cut as summarized in my previous post.

Quote:Also how big exactly is ISIL presence in Europe and why do you think that they can't be dealt with using civilized means?

If their is a wild rabid pitbull in the room with your kids you don't ask it nicely to calm down and pat it on the head. You pick up your shotgun and blow its fucking head off.
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23-03-2016, 03:42 AM
RE: Explosions in Brussels
(23-03-2016 03:36 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  If their is a wild rabid pitbull in the room with your kids you don't ask it nicely to calm down and pat it on the head. You pick up your shotgun and blow its fucking head off.

If.

Using fear to hide real problems from society isn't something unheard of.

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23-03-2016, 05:38 AM
RE: Explosions in Brussels
(22-03-2016 02:26 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Why? Why is the idea of rounding all these ISIS fucks up and killing them all off so detestable?

Because the idea of rounding up large groups of people and exterminating them has been tried before. I can't think of any instances where it has turned out well.

It's very easy to say "wipe them out". How would you do it?
Carpet bombing?
Chemical weapons?
Nukes?
First world countries have enough WMDs to literally erase the entirety of ISIS territory off the map.

Would that solve the problem?
How many women and children would that kill?
How many non ISIS people?
How many more terrorists would that create?

Ground forces? Even more problematic.
How do you tell who the ISIS fighters are?
What if they hide amongst the innocents (again)?
Do you put everyone in camps and sort them out?

There is no documentation, no easy way to do background checks, no blood-test for ISIS membership. Unfortunately, they do not tattoo "ISIS" on the foreheads of new recruits.

Are you advocating genocide?
Are you willing to go over and fight them yourself?

ISIS territory is largely made up of parts of Syria and Iraq.
Syria was unable to defend itself because it has been embroiled in a civil war. The government has exhausted its resources crushing rebels and terrorists.
Iraq? Iraq is in the situation it is in, because our country used brute force to eliminate terrorism.

(22-03-2016 02:26 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  I would say it would be a favorable outcome to letting them live another single day.
I have no problems with killing terrorists.
I have no problems with defending ourselves if we are attacked.


But after we kill the terrorists and after we defend ourselves, we need to ask ourselves some questions.

Why did this happen?
What can we do to keep it from happening again?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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23-03-2016, 05:42 AM
RE: Explosions in Brussels
(23-03-2016 03:36 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  If their is a wild rabid pitbull in the room with your kids you don't ask it nicely to calm down and pat it on the head. You pick up your shotgun and blow its fucking head off.

Yes. But you also aim carefully so you don't hit the kids. Or yourself.
Then you figure out how the rabid animal got in the house in the first place.

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23-03-2016, 06:47 AM
RE: Explosions in Brussels
Our metaphoric rabid animal can shoot you from a kilometer away and hides bombs made from old Russian jet fuel tanks that melt half a city block when you open the door to see if a bad guy is inside. A fight without significant civilian casualties hasn't been among the available options since somewhere around WW1.

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23-03-2016, 07:24 AM
RE: Explosions in Brussels
(23-03-2016 01:23 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(22-03-2016 09:36 PM)LunarDiscord Wrote:  As for the infection in Europe. It's difficult. Really, really difficult. All the solutions I can come up with to remove ISIL from Europe are horrendously third-reichy. However.. it may be necessary, in the end.

Infection? Talk about charged language.

Also how big exactly is ISIL presence in Europe and why do you think that they can't be dealt with using civilized means?

(22-03-2016 09:36 PM)LunarDiscord Wrote:  I also wonder what they do with the suspected terrorists they captured during police raids.

I hope they do what law states they should do.

(22-03-2016 09:36 PM)LunarDiscord Wrote:  I do hope they realize they can never be allowed back into daylight again, though the EU is probably too spineless to give them life in prison or an electric chair.

I hope trial of people responsible would be just and in full accordance with the law. Rule of law is of paramount importance. Also you do realize that capital punishment is illegal in member states of EU?

Spinelessness? So Europe should resort to trampling rule of law to avoid being called spineless?

I don't think he's referring to the ISIS presence in Europe as the infection. Probably Islam as a whole.

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23-03-2016, 07:33 AM
RE: Explosions in Brussels
(23-03-2016 07:24 AM)SunnyD1 Wrote:  
(23-03-2016 01:23 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Infection? Talk about charged language.

Also how big exactly is ISIL presence in Europe and why do you think that they can't be dealt with using civilized means?


I hope they do what law states they should do.


I hope trial of people responsible would be just and in full accordance with the law. Rule of law is of paramount importance. Also you do realize that capital punishment is illegal in member states of EU?

Spinelessness? So Europe should resort to trampling rule of law to avoid being called spineless?

I don't think he's referring to the ISIS presence in Europe as the infection. Probably Islam as a whole.

Maybe. For me it's needlessly inflammatory language especially when coupled with saying about spinelessness of EU.

What I find more curious is remark about death penalty - LunarDiscord is from Netherland so he should know that it isn't practiced in EU countries.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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23-03-2016, 07:34 AM
RE: Explosions in Brussels
(23-03-2016 05:38 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(22-03-2016 02:26 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Why? Why is the idea of rounding all these ISIS fucks up and killing them all off so detestable?

Because the idea of rounding up large groups of people and exterminating them has been tried before. I can't think of any instances where it has turned out well.

It's very easy to say "wipe them out". How would you do it?
Carpet bombing?
Chemical weapons?
Nukes?
First world countries have enough WMDs to literally erase the entirety of ISIS territory off the map.

Would that solve the problem?
How many women and children would that kill?
How many non ISIS people?
How many more terrorists would that create?

Ground forces? Even more problematic.
How do you tell who the ISIS fighters are?
What if they hide amongst the innocents (again)?
Do you put everyone in camps and sort them out?

There is no documentation, no easy way to do background checks, no blood-test for ISIS membership. Unfortunately, they do not tattoo "ISIS" on the foreheads of new recruits.

Are you advocating genocide?
Are you willing to go over and fight them yourself?

ISIS territory is largely made up of parts of Syria and Iraq.
Syria was unable to defend itself because it has been embroiled in a civil war. The government has exhausted its resources crushing rebels and terrorists.
Iraq? Iraq is in the situation it is in, because our country used brute force to eliminate terrorism.

(22-03-2016 02:26 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  I would say it would be a favorable outcome to letting them live another single day.
I have no problems with killing terrorists.
I have no problems with defending ourselves if we are attacked.


But after we kill the terrorists and after we defend ourselves, we need to ask ourselves some questions.

Why did this happen?
What can we do to keep it from happening again?

Sadly, America attacks more than it defends. 239 years of history, 222 spent at war.

I consider America the greatest and most dangerous threat to world safety. What is happening now is what the CIA call Blowback.

One reaps what one sows.

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