Exposé on GE's tax evasion
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28-03-2011, 11:07 PM
Exposé on GE's tax evasion
Quote:In a jaw-dropping exposé in The New York Times, David Kocieniewski explains how General Electric, the country's largest corporation, has managed to accumulate $26 billion in the last five years while not just paying zero taxes but receiving a net tax benefit of $4.1 billion from the IRS.

This is the article of what is quoted above:
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/business/...xes/36088/

Here is the original exposé from the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/busine...wanted=all


And here is GE's response:
http://www.gereports.com/setting-the-rec.../?kmed=ppc

"Liberty without socialism is privilege, injustice; socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality." Mikhail Bakunin
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29-03-2011, 03:40 PM
RE: Exposé on GE's tax evasion
When will leftists realize that corporations don't pay taxes. Ever. Even when it looks like their paying taxes, where is that money coming from?

That's right, kids. Consumers. You and I.

So when a business gets a tax break, that's less money WE have to pay.

Is it really that hard to understand?

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29-03-2011, 03:44 PM (This post was last modified: 29-03-2011 03:51 PM by sosa.)
RE: Exposé on GE's tax evasion
(29-03-2011 03:40 PM)ConditionYellow Wrote:  When will leftists realize that corporations don't pay taxes. Ever. Even when it looks like their paying taxes, where is that money coming from?

That's right, kids. Consumers. You and I.

So when a business gets a tax break, that's less money WE have to pay.

Is it really that hard to understand?

What?!? do you really want to go down that road? I'll give you a chance to rethink that and I'll be back.
Let me get this straight. WE have to pay them so that WE can pay less money? Please explain this logic.

"Liberty without socialism is privilege, injustice; socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality." Mikhail Bakunin
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29-03-2011, 03:50 PM
RE: Exposé on GE's tax evasion
When a corporation gets taxed, where does the money come from?

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29-03-2011, 03:56 PM (This post was last modified: 29-03-2011 04:12 PM by sosa.)
RE: Exposé on GE's tax evasion
"Value to Americans? While G.E.’s declining tax rates have bolstered profits and helped the company continue paying dividends to shareholders during the economic downturn, some tax experts question what taxpayers are getting in return. Since 2002, the company has eliminated a fifth of its work force in the United States while increasing overseas employment. In that time, G.E.’s accumulated offshore profits have risen to $92 billion from $15 billion."
(29-03-2011 03:50 PM)ConditionYellow Wrote:  When a corporation gets taxed, where does the money come from?

Again, let me get this straight. WE have to pay them (through tax breaks; because taxpayers end up footing the bill) so that WE can pay less money? Please explain this logic.

"Liberty without socialism is privilege, injustice; socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality." Mikhail Bakunin
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29-03-2011, 09:29 PM
RE: Exposé on GE's tax evasion
My question is an attempt to explain that logic. So, please answer it.

When a corporation pays taxes, where does the money come from?

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29-03-2011, 10:00 PM (This post was last modified: 29-03-2011 10:29 PM by sosa.)
RE: Exposé on GE's tax evasion
(29-03-2011 09:29 PM)ConditionYellow Wrote:  My question is an attempt to explain that logic. So, please answer it.

When a corporation pays taxes, where does the money come from?

Instead of beating around the bush and waiting for an answer please explain your logic as I'm very interested in hearing your explanation so I can refute it point by point...So why don't you tell me where the money is coming from so we can get on with this?

Let me see if I get your "reasoning" straight.

So GE makes record profits from consumers AND we also give them billions in tax breaks AND "we" are suppose to benefit from this how? In turn GE eliminates American jobs and takes them overseas.

"Liberty without socialism is privilege, injustice; socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality." Mikhail Bakunin
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29-03-2011, 11:21 PM
RE: Exposé on GE's tax evasion
The bailout shouldn't enter into the equation. It's not part of the capitalist system, although for some reason liberals keep drawing to it. I'm a capitalist, and the bailout was wrong. It was uncapitalist. If anything, it was a socialist move. Seeing how Obama hates capitalism, his goal as a socialist is to do everything he can while in office to bankrupt this country. That's my opinion, anyway.

Anywho, to answer the question you are unwilling to answer, the correct response is "the customers".

So when a corporation sell a widget for $10 and makes $5 profit per widget, and the government says "we're going to tax you $2" for every widget you sell, what do you think happens?

The corporation doesn't just roll over. It hikes up the price of the widget to $12.

The ONLY reason the corporations are moving overseas is because of the tax breaks. Obama is taxing them into oblivion- this is precisely WHY conservatives have been screaming that it's wrong to tax the wealthy. Corporations aren't on this planet to feed the public coffers. They are here to make money. If you over-tax them, which is what the Democrats having been doing, then they take their ball and move to another sandbox.

If Obama and the dems would go back to make making this a capitalist country as it should be, then the benefit would be clear: better, cheaper products and more jobs. But again, our President doesn't seem to want that to happen.

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29-03-2011, 11:36 PM (This post was last modified: 30-03-2011 12:11 AM by sosa.)
RE: Exposé on GE's tax evasion
(29-03-2011 11:21 PM)ConditionYellow Wrote:  The bailout shouldn't enter into the equation. It's not part of the capitalist system, although for some reason liberals keep drawing to it. I'm a capitalist, and the bailout was wrong. It was uncapitalist. If anything, it was a socialist move. Seeing how Obama hates capitalism, his goal as a socialist is to do everything he can while in office to bankrupt this country. That's my opinion, anyway.

Anywho, to answer the question you are unwilling to answer, the correct response is "the customers".

So when a corporation sell a widget for $10 and makes $5 profit per widget, and the government says "we're going to tax you $2" for every widget you sell, what do you think happens?

The corporation doesn't just roll over. It hikes up the price of the widget to $12.

The ONLY reason the corporations are moving overseas is because of the tax breaks. Obama is taxing them into oblivion- this is precisely WHY conservatives have been screaming that it's wrong to tax the wealthy. Corporations aren't on this planet to feed the public coffers. They are here to make money. If you over-tax them, which is what the Democrats having been doing, then they take their ball and move to another sandbox.

If Obama and the dems would go back to make making this a capitalist country as it should be, then the benefit would be clear: better, cheaper products and more jobs. But again, our President doesn't seem to want that to happen.

Obama a socialist? LMAO!!!! God exists and I'm a pink unicorn....too much Glenn Beck, time to turn off Fox News my friend.

"Obama is taxing GE into oblivion by giving them BILLIONS in tax breaks and paying ZERO taxes....ZERO...we're actually handing them BILLIONS in tax credits

And I didn't bring the bailout into this equation...you did

btw GE makes most of its profits overseas through finance and governmental contracts, not consumers like you and me. Their consumer appliance division accounts for less than 6% of revenue, more than half of its profits come from unregulated finance...so again please show me how we benefit here? I want concrete evidence. We let them take American jobs away and we hand them BILLIONS in tax breaks (that you and me have to pay) so we can buy a GE blender for .30 cents cheaper while they go and laugh all the way to the bank. Yea makes PERFECT sense.

Your boyfriend Reagan wasn't too fond of GE for this:

Quote:“I didn’t realize things had gotten that far out of line,” Mr. Reagan told the Treasury secretary, Donald T. Regan, according to Mr. Regan’s 1988 memoir. The president supported a change that closed loopholes and required G.E. to pay a far higher effective rate, up to 32.5 percent.

“Cracking down on offshore profit-shifting by financial companies like G.E. was one of the important achievements of President Reagan’s 1986 Tax Reform Act,” said Robert S. McIntyre, director of the liberal group Citizens for Tax Justice, who played a key role in those changes. “The fact that Congress was snookered into undermining that reform at the behest of companies like G.E. is an insult not just to Reagan, but to all the ordinary American taxpayers who have to foot the bill for G.E.’s rampant tax sheltering.”

Also you said:
(29-03-2011 11:21 PM)ConditionYellow Wrote:  The ONLY reason the corporations are moving overseas is because of the tax breaks.

That does not make any sense whatsoever. So companies are moving overseas because we give them tax breaks? Logic fail

A report conducted by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities found that U.S. corporations are now paying taxes at historical lows as a share of the total economy. Many of these corporations have also accepted taxpayer money to subsidize their losses while still not paying any federal income tax. So you're claim that that Obama is taxing them "into oblivion" is unfounded. One might think that someone in the White House would be up in arms about this apparent injustice. But instead, the opposite is true. President Barack Obama chose GE’s chairman and CEO, Jeffrey Immelt, to be the chairman of his Council on Jobs and Competitiveness. Because that's what socialists do.

"Liberty without socialism is privilege, injustice; socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality." Mikhail Bakunin
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30-03-2011, 04:55 AM
RE: Exposé on GE's tax evasion
Condition what is your idea of a capitalist? Especially a capitalist country. If the country is the capitalist it should be seeking to make the money rather than giving it away flagrantly. There is no point in America giving a company money in order to keep the heads of the organization living in the US when the organization pays little attention to the US. The bailouts are just an excuse by people most times because no one likes them, so they like to suggest their opponent is discussing them. Yearly tax though is where most of the issues come in.

Here is an example. St. Louis has some of the lowest gas prices in the country. Back in 2006 when the gas got upwards to $4 a gallon all the stores raised their prices to cover the cost of gas. When the gas went back down into the $2 range all the prices on things stayed. Companies aren't trying to give the world a break if they see an excuse they'll extort more money.

It is not true of all corporations that there is corrupt business practices, but many of the biggest ones have them. The bailout is nothing compared to getting tax credits. Tax credits are something that can be gained yearly. I agree that the gross misconduct of the country to shelter businesses that don't seriously aid the country is why we continue to have a large percent of wealthy individuals living here, but what exactly does that improve? Whenever tax paying is ignored for the people who have the money tax has to come out of basically thin air.

The US has a very low tax rate compared to most countries. Taxes are something people complain about often enough no matter the cost. I understand these things. But the difficulty with our tax rate is that the money is forced out of mainly the US citizens who can't afford attorneys.

When right wing plans that are a good idea like simplifying tax forms get voted down because corporations who control the voting system don't like it it's hard to state where things lie. Many conservatives suggest what conservatives used to feel was true. Everyone should pay taxes because if someone doesn't it costs the next person twice as much. When they are elected though no matter which side they suggest to be on corporations are who control the tax flow. The current government system is set up so that private citizens can have more wealth than the entire nation. That is a horrible attempt at capitalism. The government is supposed to be the thing with money, no matter what programs it uses or doesn't use, because the government is the whole point of having a nation either way.

I usually vote libertarian because I agree that there are many things like government controlled farm lands which are terrible wastes of money and resources. But I do not agree in any way that the people who have the money should never have to spend it. Right now you're arguing that being a billionaire means you don't need to spend any money because you buy workers who buy your products and make it free. So to improve this system we will also make it where you get tax money for losing absolutely nothing through your business actions. Because obviously if you're already not spending anything, you shouldn't be taxed because that won't convince you to spend anything. Whine for the corporations whose profit margins don't rise exponentially. That corporations fund charities and research groups is because they get tax money for it. That is currently the only benefit the wealthy give to the US. Funding for programs that the government can't afford.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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