Extraordinary Evidence?
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08-04-2016, 04:06 PM
RE: Extraordinary Evidence?
(08-04-2016 02:52 PM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 02:41 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  Ramen!

I had a conversation with a christian a while back on youtube. I never got a response from my last post with him.

I asked him how he would define a god, or how i could pike one out of a crowed. He said the omni's. I later said why don't you think god show's himself? He said it would hurt our free will. I said how could it? Even in the bible god makes himself know. He Adam and Eve, Moses, Abraham, the followers of Jesus. Now and days the pope supposedly has conversations with god. Why can't he just clear it all up and set things straight?


True. Can't really argue with that.

But i think that just leads to how a person would define a god. To a dog we may come off as God's.

If we found a race that lived 100 times longer then us, we might consider them immortal. Or with greater knowledge then us, we would say they have a vaslty Superior intellect. Really any race that would travel the stars would be.

But the big kicker is usually how the god is outside of our reality. (always a "convenient" fall back for the believer.)

Definitions of God/gods are always different.
I've been told he's microscopic and lives inside the atoms.
I've been told he's a tall handsome man with a halo.
that he's a beam of light.
that he's omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent
That he can be anything he wants to be.

But even with that these descriptions they are not definitions.

You seem to be assuming that you are arguing with people that have a definition. They do not. To define it in any substantial way, can be disproven. They are vague for good reason. Give us an exact definition and we can test for it.

Yes and No.

I assume they have a grab bag definition. Not a real one. In fact i'm kind of hoping on it. The omni's are the easiest to discredit.

I almost always start my conversations with "What is your definition of God?". It allows me to refer back to it when there views contradict it. And chisel away at self evident fallacy's. Just flood them with questions. Make them dig deeper into the thought process.I never expect to change anyone thoughts from any of my debates or conversation at least during when they're going on.

I think most believers never thought of this topic that before. They've just so used to everyone accepting God as a fact, it never gets brought up in their circles. There are hard heads that I know will never change their minds. But the more reasonable people maybe look deeper. A seed of doubt can be a powerful thing.

Maybe they go home and think more about it to try to come up with a better answer. And doing so, come to the revitalization that they know nothing about the point they are preaching.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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08-04-2016, 05:03 PM
RE: Extraordinary Evidence?
I guess I don't regard the Christians' claim that their god exists as an "extraordinary" claim. I regard it more as a nonsensical, absurd and fantastical "notion". Any true claim normally has some preliminary but valid suppositions made, or basic evidential theories supporting its tenets in the first place. A scientist may make the claim that in 50 years time, we'll be able to teleport solid objects, including humans, from one place to another. At the moment, I regard that as an extraordinary claim, but one backed up by our knowledge of physics etc, and therefore believable.

Obviously the Christians will never get any sort of evidence to prove their imaginary god's existence—extraordinary or otherwise. They haven't been able to in the past 2,000 years, so that in itself would indicate no evidence exists.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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08-04-2016, 06:13 PM
RE: Extraordinary Evidence?
(08-04-2016 06:30 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(07-04-2016 04:04 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  Many of the questions and comments that are repeated time and time again, are always new to someone. It's a thought prevoking idea.

Asking for just a little evidence for why you believe would not fill the requirements for such. I already know why most people are in their religion or belief mind set I was already there. Upbringing, indoctrination, per pressure (society) "personal witness" blah blah blah.

If I say I had eggs and toast for breakfast that isn't an extraordinary claim. Me saying I can fly and shoot laser beams out of my eyes is.

I think the evidence i would need accept a god is simple, at least for him/them.
A physical manifestation, maybe sentient life appearing on a dead planet. Like let's say Mars, we've been studying it for a long time now and haven't found any life. But if lets say 3 days from now we saw a full earth like environment on Mars, and then this being appear to the entire world with full explanations on how he did it. I would be hard for me to disagree. the questions follow would be where was he? Where did he come from? What is he? Is he worthy of praise? etc etc.

But if this being could do all that what dose he need us for?

That really wouldn't prove much. With what we can do with technology now, we are practically gods compared to people thousands of years ago. What if a thousand years from now, we can change the environment on Mars to earthlike in three days? All a change like that would prove is that someone has a much higher level of tech than we do.

I don't remember which one, but one of the famous science fiction writers said that any sufficiently advanced technological society is indistinguishable from magic. Isaac Asimov? Robert Heinlein?
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08-04-2016, 07:17 PM
RE: Extraordinary Evidence?
Clarke's Third Law.
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09-04-2016, 06:14 AM
RE: Extraordinary Evidence?
(08-04-2016 06:13 PM)DerFish Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 06:30 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  That really wouldn't prove much. With what we can do with technology now, we are practically gods compared to people thousands of years ago. What if a thousand years from now, we can change the environment on Mars to earthlike in three days? All a change like that would prove is that someone has a much higher level of tech than we do.

I don't remember which one, but one of the famous science fiction writers said that any sufficiently advanced technological society is indistinguishable from magic. Isaac Asimov? Robert Heinlein?

I believe it was Isaac Asimov.
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09-04-2016, 06:23 AM
RE: Extraordinary Evidence?
(09-04-2016 06:14 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 06:13 PM)DerFish Wrote:  I don't remember which one, but one of the famous science fiction writers said that any sufficiently advanced technological society is indistinguishable from magic. Isaac Asimov? Robert Heinlein?

I believe it was Isaac Asimov.

Arthur C Clarke

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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