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FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
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22-02-2016, 08:56 AM (This post was last modified: 22-02-2016 09:08 AM by Full Circle.)
FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fbi-dir...beforebell

I’m wondering what you all think of this?

On the one hand I think that Big Brother already knows too much.
On the other hand I think we need to know who the fuck those terrorists were talking to so as to prevent another attack.

How do we allow this only under such circumstances, or is the genie out of the bottle after the first time?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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22-02-2016, 09:07 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
I think allowing it once would set dangerous precedent so I'm against it*. It's not like the gov and it's agency are the friends of people which works in their best interests.


*Or I would be if I were American citizen.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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22-02-2016, 09:08 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
To this incident, yes. I have two answers for the FBI and Apple... yes and no depending on if an incident has happened yet. No snooping without an actual real physical crime that has been committed (no, we thinks or they might have's). Yes, if it is an investigation after the fact and a judge orders it.

I do not want to see snooping but if they are gathering information about the participants after the fact and a judge warrants it, then yes. Crack that puppy open. No court order, no deal. It should not be at the discretion of the FBI or any investigating authority.

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22-02-2016, 09:21 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
No, for multiple reasons.

First, once the precedent is set, the terms of usage will be broadened. Terror acts will shift to gang/drug/mob activity, then to murders, trafficking, etc.

Second, once granted the power will be misused, by the government, by individual agents or by both.

Third, once the software is designed, it will fall into the wrong hands. Identity theft is already a problem and electronics are already being hacked. Let's not make it easier for them.

Fourth, to quote Benjamin Franklin: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Fifth: Think of all the police officers, politicians and government employees that you know personally or at least see in the news. Which one would you trust with the ability to hack your phone?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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22-02-2016, 09:46 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
I voted "maybe". I'm really conflicted on this. On the one hand, a judge has issued a court order, and Apple should comply. OTOH, once that genie is out of the bottle...

In the end, there is going to be an encryption method that no one will be able to break in any sort of reasonable time frame. Then what?

My question is, how much do they really think they are going to learn?
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22-02-2016, 10:03 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(22-02-2016 09:46 AM)Fireball Wrote:  I voted "maybe". I'm really conflicted on this. On the one hand, a judge has issued a court order, and Apple should comply. OTOH, once that genie is out of the bottle...

In the end, there is going to be an encryption method that no one will be able to break in any sort of reasonable time frame. Then what?

My question is, how much do they really think they are going to learn?

There already are encryption methods that are essentially unbreakable. That's how the ransom-ware viruses work. It's just that such methods are not practical for use on phones and such. Plus, people lose their passwords all the time, so no one wants the personal electronics to be unbreakable.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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22-02-2016, 10:38 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
I voted no. In addition to Fatbaldhobbit's points, I think the idea of the government simply being able to shanghai a company into doing its work is ridiculous. What's next, force Lockheed to mount the next spaceshot just because they built the booster rocket?
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22-02-2016, 11:51 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(22-02-2016 08:56 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fbi-dir...beforebell

I’m wondering what you all think of this?

On the one hand I think that Big Brother already knows too much.
On the other hand I think we need to know who the fuck those terrorists were talking to so as to prevent another attack.

How do we allow this only under such circumstances, or is the genie out of the bottle after the first time?

I thought that Big Brother was an allegory for god. Maybe I'm wrong.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
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22-02-2016, 11:56 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(22-02-2016 11:51 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  I thought that Big Brother was an allegory for god. Maybe I'm wrong.

Orwell's BB? I remember learning that he was writing about the evils of totalitarian governments like Fascism, Communism, etc. I could be wrong though.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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22-02-2016, 12:02 PM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
I'm of two minds - I think you relinquish any expectation of privacy regarding the writings, correspondence, or "media" you leave behind if you suffer a violent death in the aftermath of a murderous rampage of your own design. However, I also worry about the general legal concept that all information and all devices should be accessible to authorities. I heard someone on NPR arguing that it would be problematic for someone to build a box that government authorities would be physically unable to open if the box contained material that might save lives. On that principle I guess I disagree - I don't see the box maker as having any obligation to build a "back door" to his impenetrable box at the government's behest and I worry about a government or any authority that believes it should have the power to have all boxes made accessible for its purposes. I don't often swallow "slippery slope" arguments, but I think there is good reason to be wary of the precedent this could set.
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