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FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
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22-02-2016, 07:07 PM (This post was last modified: 22-02-2016 08:34 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(22-02-2016 07:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-02-2016 06:49 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Due diligence.

There really aren't any interesting unanswered questions about this.

At the very least they should be able to get contact info to find the social network associated with that phone. No telling where that might lead.

(22-02-2016 07:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  Certainly nothing interesting enough for this bullshit demand from the FBI.

If you ain't smart enough to figure it out try bullying. They should've kept their mouth shut and gone to NSA instead of Apple. Very poorly played federales.

#sigh
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22-02-2016, 08:11 PM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(22-02-2016 06:22 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I thought I heard on the radio today that the phone actually belonged to the guy's employer. What if they give permission?

Or maybe I misheard.

Yes, they destroyed their personal phones. This phone was issued by his employer.

They also destroyed the hard drive of their computer and had no intention on being taken alive.

So, with that all in mind, I'm going with the idea it's doubtful the phone will yeild anything earth shattering.

In fact I'd be skeptical if the government did get into the phone and later claim to have found the meaning of life and secrets of the universe.

Meanwhile, I think Apple is correct on this issue -- the FBI has overstepped. Period.

This has world wide implications that go far beyond this single phone.

Also the employer permission doesn't matter much. The problem is the phone is locked. They can't get in, without the lock code.
If they enter the code in wrong too many times the phone becomes bricked.
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22-02-2016, 08:49 PM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(22-02-2016 07:07 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(22-02-2016 07:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  There really aren't any interesting unanswered questions about this.

At the very least they should be able to get contact info to find the social network associated with that phone. No telling where that might lead.

(22-02-2016 07:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  Certainly nothing interesting enough for this bullshit demand from the FBI.

If you ain't smart enough to figure it out try bullying. They should've kept their mouth shut and gone to NSA instead of Apple. Very poorly played federales.

This is my thinking. I don't have any personal knowledge, but from what I've seen online, maybe the NSA hires the non-purple haired non-pot smoking hackers? Smartass
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22-02-2016, 08:59 PM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
If they are trying to force the phone companies to put a "backdoor" into a phone so they can access it safely then a big resounding NO. It's not their business to tell a company how it can build their product. If a company wants to build a hacker safe product and it's legal to do so them butt out. Now, what will happen next is that they will work to make it illegal to build and sell hacker proof electronic devices or maybe to use them and put the legalities on the phone owner.

Many years ago fuzz-busters were common, radar detectors that gave you a heads up so you wouldn't be caught speeding. They tried many ways to get around their use and now for the most part it's not illegal to make/build one but it is illegal to use one in your car. This is how they get around subversive tech that the gov doesn't want.

I'll bet we see this as the next step.

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22-02-2016, 10:54 PM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(22-02-2016 08:59 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  If they are trying to force the phone companies to put a "backdoor" into a phone so they can access it safely then a big resounding NO. It's not their business to tell a company how it can build their product. If a company wants to build a hacker safe product and it's legal to do so them butt out. Now, what will happen next is that they will work to make it illegal to build and sell hacker proof electronic devices or maybe to use them and put the legalities on the phone owner.

Many years ago fuzz-busters were common, radar detectors that gave you a heads up so you wouldn't be caught speeding. They tried many ways to get around their use and now for the most part it's not illegal to make/build one but it is illegal to use one in your car. This is how they get around subversive tech that the gov doesn't want.

I'll bet we see this as the next step.

Well, there goes my idea for bullet/spike strip proof tires.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

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22-02-2016, 11:59 PM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(22-02-2016 08:49 PM)Fireball Wrote:  
(22-02-2016 07:07 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  At the very least they should be able to get contact info to find the social network associated with that phone. No telling where that might lead.


If you ain't smart enough to figure it out try bullying. They should've kept their mouth shut and gone to NSA instead of Apple. Very poorly played federales.

This is my thinking. I don't have any personal knowledge, but from what I've seen online, maybe the NSA hires the non-purple haired non-pot smoking hackers? Smartass

You have to qualify for TS/SCI, which would make it difficult for anyone too interesting to get involved Tongue

Plenty of real brainy people, sure, but not usually representative of the pot smoking anarchist with purple hair cliche.

On the military side of it, hacking is simply yet another school you can apply for if you're in a relevant field and know your way around Unix. Don't know much about the civilian types, though. I was at Misawa, not the notorious Ft. Meade depicted in such movies as Enemy of the State as pretty much the center of everything evil lol.

But to answer the poll... I've gotta say no. And I'm not even distrustful of Big Brother, really. I just don't like the idea of forcing Apple to tear down one of the few security measures that actually seems to be working in a world increasingly concerned with cyber security. I mean think about... If Apple has a popular, mass produced device, all of which are exactly the same, meaning hackers the world over can have a crack at it as many times as they want in an effort to experiment with and learn its weaknesses, and they can't get into it, then perhaps they should be rethinking their agenda. For example, learn from what they've built instead of forcing them to essentially destroy it.

Not to diminish what happened, but the danger posed by shooters like this is statistically insignificant compared to the growing threat of malevolent hackers and the damage they have the potential to do. Ffs, let Apple keep this defensive measure intact.

And even if we had the info, then what? We already know who the enemy is. We've been sitting around with our fingers up our assess while the murder, rape, and torture more or less at their convenience. And on a smaller scale, doesn't it usually end up coming out that the perpetrators of these shootings were already on a watch list or some kind of no fly list to begin with? Intel is useless without the authority to act on it. Forgive me for being a stereotypical 'murican, but forget Apple. Let's go shoot the bad guys. We already know who they are. It's not like they're gonna open up the phone and get some kind of unexpected, game changing info where we suddenly realize daesh is actually run by Iceland or something.

And yeah, that's a bit of an oversimplification. There may indeed be useful info on the phone. I just don't think it's enough to warrant the trade-off.

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23-02-2016, 12:37 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
I vote NO absolutely. If it is known that government agencies can decrypt a phone and that is admissible as evidence, how do we trust that justice is done and they actually found evidence?

Let's say I have a political opponent and I send in the cops to arrest him and take his phone. Oh! Big surprise! We arrested him 'cos he was drunk driving (Really! He was! Trust us!) and we just ran a routine scan on his phone, and he's part of a terrorist ring! What a lucky break for us that we caught him in time!

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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23-02-2016, 01:05 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(22-02-2016 08:49 PM)Fireball Wrote:  
(22-02-2016 07:07 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  At the very least they should be able to get contact info to find the social network associated with that phone. No telling where that might lead.


If you ain't smart enough to figure it out try bullying. They should've kept their mouth shut and gone to NSA instead of Apple. Very poorly played federales.

This is my thinking. I don't have any personal knowledge, but from what I've seen online, maybe the NSA hires the non-purple haired non-pot smoking hackers? Smartass

Those are there children. They'll learn.

#sigh
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23-02-2016, 07:42 AM (This post was last modified: 23-02-2016 07:57 AM by Fatbaldhobbit.)
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(22-02-2016 05:18 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(22-02-2016 09:21 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Fourth, to quote Benjamin Franklin: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

We give up essential freedom of movement every time we obey traffic laws. So there's that.
That's not an appropriate example. Traffic laws are a necessity. Traffic laws regulate behavior to insure public safety. The effects of traffic laws can be observed, studied and adjusted if necessary.

(22-02-2016 05:18 PM)cjlr Wrote:  I'm not disagreeing with the broader point but sometimes I think there's such a thing as being too pithy.

Civil Rights are an entirely different animal than traffic laws. The US government has taken every opportunity in the past to slice away civil rights.

Look up Executive Order 9102 and Executive Order 9066.

Look up the controversy over the Patriot Act:
wiki article

During the height of the War on Drugs, laws were passed allowing the government (state, local and federal) to seize the assets of drug lords. The aim was to get the cartel leaders and the massive amounts of cash they were making.

Now the laws are used to seize the homes and vehicles of anyone involved in drug crime. Get caught buying drugs in your car? Get used to walking. One woman's grandson sold weed out of her home. The local cops tried to take her house.

The point of this is that the government will use every excuse to chip away civil rights. Once they are gone, those rights will not be given back.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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23-02-2016, 08:07 AM
RE: FBI boss to Apple backers: ‘Stop saying the world is ending’
(22-02-2016 11:51 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  I thought that Big Brother was an allegory for god. Maybe I'm wrong.

FatBaldHobbit already mentioned George Orwell, read 1984.

http://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/n/...t-a-glance

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“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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